No but my birthday is on feb 2nd, so I'll prolly do one then, seeing as how I have 2 notable orders between now and then.... I'll prolly go crazy! Lol

Steve

I think if customers treated their LFS owner/staff with the respect and kindness we demand from them, everybody would find it a better experience.

I get exceptional treatment (from all the stores I deal with) and have absolutely no problems with prices or their making a profit. If it's too rich for my blood, I don't buy it. Because of my attitude, they are happy to help me out, give me great service and throw me a deal, when appropriate.

IMO, it's our own attitude that creates the experience. Why on earth would anyone NOT want a store owner to make money and stay in business. They took the risk. They put in the work. they have the knowledge. etc.

Get over yourselves.

Oh...and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

In a perfect world your statement is true. However, I treated a LFS with much respect even giving him over $4000 in buisness in just a few months. The end result was promises broken, over charged on items and just overall a poor experience.

My fault though, I should of researched this LFS first, as I am not the only one to have been "had", by this individual.

You are correct though that everyone needs to make some money, so I have no issues spending money at the stores that treat me with the same respect I give them! If I was in a bind and needed help I know the stores I spend my money at would help me with no questions asked.

Of course I was generalizing and there are always a few bad apples that can spoil it for everyone. It's just the general disregard that some people have for the expense and risk involved in owner/operating a small store. It's nice to have food with your meals!

Well said. I also prefer to pass on over priced/expensive items.
No matter which shop you attend, it will have at least one severely over priced item. Everyshop in Edmonton has from time to time caused me to shake my head. So I don't buy it.

Hey with Canreef I now rarely need any livestock or corals anyhow! Dry goods are usually priced similarly.

Retailers must make money.

I think Ken was just trying to answer the qustions being asked here, I don't believe he was being confrontational.

I agree that MarkoD was getting a bit ridiculous. Bottom line if you don't work at a LFS or know their costs don't make assumptions as to what their prices are or how much mark up there is or isn't. As also mentioned before there are staff wages, live stock losses, operating costs etc. that have to be taken into consideration.

Also keep in mind that sometimes prices vary because wholesalers give specials/discounts on certain fish and other times they charge more for that same fish. Different wholesalers also charge different prices so LFS have to base the price of the fish according to what they had to pay for it which can be a difference of $20-$80 or more depending on who you're buying through at the time. Which is why sometimes you can get a deal on a fish for $35 which normally would cost $80-90.

+1

Thankfully I have a good relationship with all the lfs in Edmonton and they have all been good to me. Is it sad that they all know who I am? Even the cashier at Big Als recognizes me :redface:

I cant wait for the day im in line at Safeway or Superstore, and the person wants a discount off their bill.

Cashier "that will be $145.89"
Client "Can i give you $130.00 I shop here alot"

These stores never offer boxing day sales.

I live in Calgary and i know you too. Chances are good Kevin does too.
Mwahahaha.

Yeah but check out my post count now :)

Took 2+ rep and 2- so that's a break even.

It was interesting reading this thread as it is very easy to tell employers from employee's in the responses. As a self employed business owner the cold hard facts are this. Mark ups on whatever you sell must cover your costs. This includes everything from insurance to wages to tax's and rent or lease or mortgage fees. Anybody who has their own business and shop will tell you that the tax's are horrible, wages are a pain and lost leaders really don't exist. If you see a shop advertising an oil change for $19.95+tax there is always a clause saying "most vehicles" and what exceptions there are to the sale. They don't lose money but they certainly have an opportunity to make money with add on sales. This is the basis for the so called lost leader effect. So if you see a sale on salt or equipment or livestock, there is usually a theory or gimmick behind the reason for the sale. It's the same for tv's stereo's etc. When someone shows me an add for Instant ocean salt for say $39.95 a bucket and the second one free then I say "Sign me up for 20 pails" but I have found that prices whether they are in LFS's or electronics are usually pretty consistent during the year, sales come and go all year round and for the most part whether its a Boxing day sale or Pre Christmas sale or Labour day sale or My wife is nagging me sale, the prices are all usually pretty good. It's whether you can be patient for the right deal to come along that can be the biggest factor. Eg. If you were in a LFS and say a particular fish or coral that you really wanted and the price was $100.00. would you gamble and say I am going to wait a couple of weeks for boxing day to get the fish for $70-$80 dollars. Most people won't and will buy that day at full pop. Here is the plain fact about business, mine or anybody else's. We are in business to make money, when someone can convince my employee's to work for free and the government to stop taxing me and for anything I want to be free, then you can whine about inflated prices. If anybody can find the words "NON PROFIT" anywhere in my signage or business cards I will gladly give jobs away for nothing.

Well said.

:lol: yep even some of the Calgary stores know me

Lol just got +1 rep and -1

Still even :)

Sorry cant return the favor, I'm on iphone

Where do you get this information? I used to work in this industry (less than 2 years ago) and your right there is a few hundred dollars in fish but if your paying $1000 to ship please ask for vaseline when they rape you. We rarely seen shipping costs at half that and we had to fly stuff to calgary then to lethbridge (and extra $100). Generally it was $300/box when they got to Calgary international Airport.


I will however say you guys in edmonton are getting SCREWED HARD! I was up in october and visited a few shops about the only one I seen with decent pricing was RCE. I didnt get a chance to stop at Blue World but I will say I stopped shopping when I seen a Purple Tang for $300 at another shop. Same fish is a $90 fish in Calgary.

Thankfuly Lethbridge stores have finally clued in that people are making trips to calgary for cheaper prices, ordering from JL, and thankfuly they have lowered their prices to keep people local.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH wow, I want my life rewind button after reading this thread.

I got it from the invoice of an LFS where I helped out my friend during several recent deliveries of fish and corals. Trust me, the local transhippers are charging an arm & a leg for shipping and handling. I am not "pulling numbers out my whazoo". The $1000 was for several boxes, but the fish and corals cost far less than the actual shipping/handling charges. They also charge far higher than bank exchange rates and that can quickly add up too. My numbers are accurate as of yesterday, not two years ago.

OMG, this place always cracks me up.
imagine LFSs wanting to make money.
its not like they put their entire financial well being at risk or anything when they start up a business and hope that they make it work.
It must the difference between owning a business and working for someone else.
I truly don't think that people get how strenuous and nerve wrecking owning a business can be or how much is truly on the line when you decide to open the doors.
Employees generally always get paid for the all work they put in.
Employers generally never get paid for all the work they put in.
Employees, when they lose a job, they go find another one.
Employers, when they lose a job, they lose their business, most likely their home because most of them have mortgaged it once or twice just to help get the business off the ground, and potentially all of their life savings...GONE.
starting over sucks.
Imagine everything you worked for since you started working gone.
would you open a store??? would you risk everything??

so again, imagine a store wanting to make a profit...boxing day or not.
why shouldn't they?????
btw, if they are selling a purple tang for 90.00 they aren't making money.
and the cost of shipping from indonesia overnight is the same if not more money than the corals and fish in the boxes and certainly can cost a 1000.00 for a few boxes.
just my 2 cents.
Neal

I don't think anyone said a lfs isn't suppose to make money. Obviously they're open to make money. Even a store that sells crap and looks like crap has managed to stay open this long.

My original point that selling something at cost on boxing day will not hurt the business in the long run, got twisted and blown out of proportion

Even with my own business. When I first started I was shooting all day weddings for free. (I was actually losing money because of the initial investment required)

Now 3 years later I am still reeping the rewards from the referrals I got from those weddings. And I still give a discount to all these referrals in hopes that they'll send more business my way.

For me it's all about building rapport with a client. And with any business I believe it's important. Since price is the biggest initial influence on people's decisions on where to shop, bringing them in with a sale is important. And when you satisfy them with service or quality of product, price becomes secondary.

Being a money hungry business person (like some people who own lfs)( and no this doesn't mean giving stuff away and not making a profit) will do nothing but hurt them. Ive gone into lfs where all the owner wants to do is sell me things. I told him I had cyano and in a 2 min span he tried to sell me bio pellets, gfo, fluval phosphate remover, and phosdown.
I'll probably never go there again (even tho everyone praises this shop)

Aren't those all viable options for dealing with cyano?? So the fish store guy that sells stuff for a living tried to sell you stuff to fix the problem you complained about? Weird....:razz:

dont ya just hate that lol the nerve of some people who do they think they are lol

i hate when i dont get any help jeesh its nice to hear that people actually try to offer advise now its being ignored is what i hate.:)

Oh so I need all 4 products to lower my phosphates?
I went to another store and got a straight up answer "using phosdown is the least expensive and equally effective way to lower phosphates"

I do get it though. I got married earlier this year, and talked to a photographer about it, and he tried to sell me photo services. Although he was highly recommended, I doubt I'll ever deal with him again.

P.S. My head hurts....

Well, ok, you didn't word it that he tried to sell you ALL those products at the same time. :) Not so cool...
Just razzin' ya :razz:

He basically told me to run gfo to lower the phosphates and then use bio pellets to maintain it. It just seemed like he was piling things on. And if I hadn't known better I would have probably bought everything he recommended

Did he try and sell you additional photographers, additional prints, canvas prints, extra for pictures on a DVD?

Actually, ya..but no bad feelings, it's what they do. People that sell for a living need to do just that, sell. Now if this guy tried to sell you the magic cyano zapping ray gun, then that's bad. but if he tried to sell you a reasonable solution to the problem you took to him, then he's doing his job. The better he does his job, the nicer toys he can buy his kids for Christmas. It's how he makes a living. If you had bought his solution, it in all likelihood would have done the job you needed.
I expect my LFS to be good at his job, whether it's researching new technologies, maintaining healthy livestock and being friendly to me when I come in. But the flip side is, the primary purpose of all that stuff is sales. No sales, no store, no toys for kids.

But the lfs that gave me the straight forward answer and seemed to have my best interest in mind (cost effectiveness but still gets the job done), basically gets all my money now. And I have no problem recommending his store to anyone I encounter that has a tank.

Just like with anything. People like to have a "guy for that"
Like I have a tv guy, I have a car audio guy, I have a fish guy. They will always recommend that "guy"
And I believe that's the most important aspect of a successful business.

Suddenly the store changes from $1000/box to multiple boxes.

Thats believable, 3 boxes can easily be $1000 worth of shipping and fees.

As for the Purple tangs I am doubtful they are loosing money on them otherwise they wouldnt sell it for that price. Its one of the more successful shops in town, I dont think they are in it to loose.

This may help clear up some questions people are asking.

First and foremost, you as the consumer always have the choice to where you shop, we as the retailer have the option to refuse services (Which we have in many cases). We as the businesses need you as much as you need us. If we don’t have customers we go out of business, if you don’t have more places to shop your prices WILL go up.

As for prices, all stores try to be consistent, most LFS’s in Edmonton deal with the same suppliers with the exception of the large BOX stores. If a price is out of whack, maybe mention it to the store as prices are not written in stone, maybe someone just priced it wrong.

As for a $300 purple tang, that should get you to wonder why it is that pricy? Especially the fact I can price an Achillies Tang at $350. Is it supply and demand? Since purple tangs are rare now as only places that have them readily are Yemen and Sri Lanka. Since Yemen is war torn right now, and no one is allowing any products from there on air cargo that only leaves Sri Lanka to fill the needs of consumers.

No business can sell things at a loss on an extended period of time, that’s not even considered “non-profit”, that is considered “bankruptcy”.

I have done some things in the past for “cost” for a new customer, got him a RSM250, blew away a box stores price, the customer swore left to right that we would be his “main” store, guess what? In a year no sight or sound of this customer, karma’s a bitch though, I hear from other sources that a pump died on it and he didn’t have the nerve to call us for support in which we would have helped him regardless.

Just the other day, a customer asked me for some salt at box store prices, I wouldn’t match the price, but was off by $2 (for 8 boxes). The customer didn’t see it as I was dropping it $18 from my retail price, but the fact I $2 short from the price the “other” store was offering. The only problem was I had it in stock, and they didn’t and were not offering rain checks.

Running a LFS is a lot of work, long hours, and later runs to the airport. In Edmonton we don’t have proper direct international flights to keep costs down. Flying inventory from Vancouver or Toronto or even Calgary can increase shipping costs by 100%, it costs as much to fly inventory from LA direct as it does from Vancouver.

Unless you are directly involved in dealing with the orders, you do not now the costs involved with them. Shipping, CITES, USFW, CFIA, and a lot of other acronyms I haven’t even listed, all of these take a piece of the pie, that is not including the businesses that supply the livestock or the agents (transhippers) cuts.

Where it comes down to, as a consumer you have final say. You can shop at your LFS, box store or online. That is your choice.

The moral of this story…..

Loss Leaders are a ploy from box stores to bring in new customers, as for retention if the services, knowledge and the vibe aren’t there they won’t be back. I speak from personal experience.

This will be my last post on this topic, as I feel a flame war arising soon.

Enjoy your holidays, enjoy the sales, enjoy your hobby.

Sounds like TV warranties quit your bitching =)

Agree with everything you said there, most people who run their own business understand the additional costs that are piled on by many different things. Sorry if this sounds condescending to some but unless you are running your own business especially if you employ other people, you have absolutely no clue what it really takes to run a business. I have had people say to me "Yeah I ran my own store so I know whats all involved" And when I asked them what happened to their store it's the same old story, "oh I closed it up, economy was bad."Or some other bs story. Talk to the store owner who has run his business for 20-30 yrs and they will tell you it's a crap load of work and blood sweat and tears. That doesn't even take into consideration how much the government and certain suppliers rape you with additional tax's and costs.

Lol except when your tv effs up within 4 years you're glad you got it :)

I wish fish stores sold extended warranties on equipment.

Lol! Jokes on you. Youre not gonna get your post count up

Anyone want in on a royal nature salt group buy? Lol

Post count does not concern me grasshopper... :lol:

BTW I fixed your spelling of you're.

Thanks. I blame iPhone for that one.

*edit* it capitalizes the p in iPhone but doesn't always add apostrophes

The Majority of add ons are a huge rip off.

My wife is in the industry... Visual communications design(graphic artist) and I am glad she can do anything our wedding photog could do ... Or our picture book would have cost $700. She did it for under 50. So how's the industry marko?

You can tell us about your sales perhaps instead of continuing ragging on rhe vendors, which is now painfully long and comes accross like you ate lacking any real insight or knowledge. Frack.

Seems you really like negative attention. Most your threads are antagonizing people... And most people , my self included , roll their eyes when you make any post.

I see more and more of the real you on here buddy. Maybe remove your business info. Reflects horribly.

I would never hire a guy with your attitude.

And I think we're done here...