Im a bit slow I guess. Marie has already provided you with the link. :wink:

reefermadness, have you posed this/your question(s) to all canadian LFS's that sell corals; thus leveling the playing field? i am sure you have! (perhaps you could start a new thread and publish your results?) just wondering if they welcomed your, ever so friendly, approach to information seeking?

Paul has truthfully declared he's not telling you. So the decision for you is simple. Don't buy these corals if they're going to cause you moral issues.

OC has been accused, reported, visited by the authorities, and checks out as doing nothing wrong. At this point, decide to purchase, or not, based on the info you have.

well i have been following the last few threads out of curiosity more than anything and of all the posts this one caught my eye more than any other... from a consumers point of view...

this seems like a pretty shady buisiness tactic... ya its great if you find someone willing to pay this mark up on a coral.... so you are taking corals that "LOOK" like the high end, high demand corals and give them their name and up the price regardless of what your actual cost is on these pieces !?!?

in all honesty i was considering an order until i read this post....
good luck with the gouging........
when one of my favy lfs's get a deal on coral so do i!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Marie for that thread.

However the fact remains that Oceanic (Paul) refuses to answer my simple questions.

1)Are these corals coming from the ORA/Tyree direct or otherwise? In other words are they coming from the USA.



The only reason I can think of that would cause Oceanic to deny that these are ORA/Tyree corals is to not implicate themselves. Lets not be naive people....Im just being brutely honest here because it doesnt make sense to me.

2) IF yes these coral coming from ORA/Tyree are they being brought in through legal channels

If Oceanic chooses to they can answer these 2 simple questions and the whole issue will be cleared up. The fact that they have not done so is what gets me??

Like I said I dont believe the way CITES is setup is correct in this instance but I do think all stores should play by the same rules. I would love to walk into many stores (even local stores to me) and be able to by Tyree or ORA corals but the fact remains I can't.

Sorry but most of you with knowledge on the subject may not like what Im saying but closing your eyes does not make the truth go away.

It's not that we don't like what your saying....we just find it amusing because this very subject has been going on ad nauseum for years


Oceanic chooses not to answer those 2 questions.......they have been checked out and no one was hauled off to jail. I think you might have to not let it "get you" :biggrin:

ElGuappo, Paul's being sarcastic because he's getting tired of being accused....If you don't like the price then don't buy the corals..... It's only worth what someone will pay for it

thats the thing about witten text you can never tell the context..... oops..

this still isnt something a vendor should be saying..just my opinion..

Good Morning,

Yes it is definitely is not something that a LFS should be saying and certainly not practicing. I apologize if my sarcasm was not conveyed through the post, however; if you were in my position you would be frustrated as well.

My point of the sarcastic remark was to make light of the fact that I have scoured the 4 corners of the world searching for ORA/Tyree look a like corals because they are so common, that's why ORA and Tyree have been known for; putting their names on commonly found corals (pls. read sarcasm here) and charging unsuspecting consumers premium money for them.

This I assure you is not the case. These corals are priced for a reason and the reason is that they are indeed rare to find in the wild originally and that's why they are expensive. Of all the millions of corals that are exported to North America, only a few are found to be worthy to culture by ORA or Tyree. Again, hence the price.

This person has no interest in buying from me because I assure you, he or she thinks that my prices are too high and if I was to relinquish my sources he/she can get their favorite LFS to bring it in and sell to them cheaper.

Or, he/she would also like to bring the same corals in themselves and sell it.

As a business man, it would be unwise for me to even entertain this and the only way that they feel that they can get what they want is by constantly accusing me of illegal importation because to their knowledge it is impossible.

So, I am constantly being put on the cross to defend myself. The only way to rid me of this is to come out and explain in text point to point on how it's done. And like I've expressed numerous times; it is not in my best interest to do so.

For example, I've always wanted to know how Cadbury puts their caramilk in their caramilk bar but after numerous emails and requests to find out; they still haven't told me how it's done. (pls read sarcasm here). And I'm sure Hershey thinks that this is unfair not to share their caramilk secret. Bad bad Cadbury...shady business.

To say that this person wants me to share my information with other LFS so that we all have a level playing field is pretty ridiculous in my eyes.

If your LFS feels that this is profitable enough for them, then maybe they should pursue and do the proper research on how to import/export. Until then, please do not accuse me of doing something that I've taken the time and efforts to research how to do.

Thanks and have a great day.

Paul

This is unreal. If I accused my neighbour of illegal activity on the basis that he drives a nicer car that I can afford myself, that would a sentiment based on pettiness and jealousy and to publicly accuse someone of such without any proof in hand is libel and the irony there is that THAT is illegal and can have consequences.

Having some knowledge of CITES process and not able to discern the activities of what another person may be doing is a huge stretch to claim illegal activity. HUGE stretch.

The LFS industry is all about guarded secrets regarding suppliers. Go into any LFS and ask them where they import their fish from. Beyond maybe in ambiguous or vague terms or maybe a geographic area, they won't tell you. Certainly not things like the names and contact info of specific suppliers. Maybe some will, but that's an individual choice on their part what to disclose. It's a fact of life in this industry.

To me this is no different. The choice is clear: buy them or don't buy them. And leave it at that. It's that simple.

Not true at all. I'm an avid SPS collector. I have over 2000 posts in the SPS forum on RC a lone.You are not fooling anyone. Yes, you can find some ORA/Tyree look a likes (usually never as nice) but many you absolutely can NOT find.

Also if what you say is true...why call them buy the same name? You make jokes about where these corals come from and the "pedigree" yet you intentionally use the same system to advertise your corals and make money. A little hypocritical IMO.

You are right that after all this I do not have any interest in buying from you (I prefer the real things anyway)....before I posted on this thread I actually did consider it. The rest of your statement is totally false. I have spent more then you are asking for these corals.

also false...I have no interest turning my hobby into a business.

hmmm?? Illegal imporation is very possible.

Sorry but I did not ask you to do this.

No the only way to defend yourself is answer my two simple questions. And since you have now said that these are in fact not corals coming from ORA or Tyree directly or indirectly but in fact corals that simply look like ORA or Tyree corals the conversation is over.

Thank you for finally being honest about the situation. It is much appreciated.

Reefermadness, even though the famous Reefer Madness coral business went out of business in 2009 long after it's inception, how did you come about the name for your own use if you chose to use it years later as your name on Canreef ? Are you related to them through some sort of lineage or affiliated with them in their venture or did you use their name without permission ? Do we all not have a costitutional right to know?

The plot thickens.

:popcorn:

Umm..sure. I liked the name. Is there a problem with that?

I already stated...I have no finanical gain from any of this...I am and always have been a simple aquarist with no business affiliation.

Also I already stated my motive for posting....simply just to find the truth and I think all reef stores should be playing by the same rules.

PLOT THINNED.

I think that's crap! If someone has some method to gain a competitive advantage, all the power to them. It creates competition and diversity in the market, rather than every store carrying all the same stuff, all at the same price, etc...boring.

Whatever Paul figured out here, good on him. It gives us access to corals previously not available, and his name has been cleared by DFO. Good enough for me. As I said, if it's not good enough for you, shop elsewhere, that's the point of a diverse market. You don't have to deal with Paul at all.

+1 with this.... Enough of the comments here put together from Reefermadness could fairly easily at this point be looked at as Libel and fairly easily challenged in court... I think some advice to tread lightly should be observed......

Just saying.

Totally agree...if its with in the law. Because not ever store would be willing to break the law and to me that just isnt fair.


GUYS CONTROVERSY OVER. Paul has stated that these are not the real ORA/Tyree corals. Although I think it is a bit misleading that his advertising them with the same name...it is good enough for me......

I asked questions.....never did I say that I know you did something illegal (because I don't know and inocent till proven guilty). Libel...give me a break.

This.

Plus this:

Plus this:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=68931

= thread LOL

This is getting very serious so I feel I need to chime in with something very important to- ooo look LOLcats!

I'm sorry, we have a very strict "no cats" policy here on Canreef (ok, I just made that up, but it's a good policy, I think)

Reefer I think if anything Paul should be thanking you at this point, I can only imagine the number of people who jumped on over to Oceanic Corals to look at all of these "Extremely illegal corals".

Any publicity is good publicity after all ;).

Uh-oh mod fights coming up......isn't Delphinus a cat person? I know Christy is

:pop2:

yeah Brad, look out! I've trained my cat in the ninja arts and I may send it over there....to sleep all day on your fuzzy blankets and beg for treats. LOUDLY!

So there!!

:razz:

ORA
 

I have a few of those funny little black coral plugs, (I won't devulge my source either) Paul already knows.
PS. I don't even like cat fish. 100% dog person.
To each his/her own though.
I can't believe this crap is still going though! I used to have my reservations about the legallity of this a year or two ago and I also voiced them! Paul has long since changed my opinion. I have purchased quite a few frags from Paul and I believe they are what the names advertise. I have been in the store when orders have come in, ( the last shipment that started this again) I have personally helped unpack. I know the country they came from but not the supplier and, I don't care! He (Oceanic Corals) has been checked out buy the tax collecters we call Government and they say it is leagal, end of story!
If some one does not believe the names of the corals they have the right not to buy from that supplier, that, i believe, should also be the end of the story....but I know it won't!
Either way I think you are missing out on some stellar aquaculterd corals.
PPS. When my tank crashed this summer almost all of the corals that suvived were the corals I purchased from Paul. Most of the wild colonies that I had had for years... not so much. I still hate to talk about it!
Long over due but, Thanks Paul!
Keith.

Im so confused. I dont know if Oceanic (paul) has stated these are or are not ORA/Tyree corals. He refuses to come out and say a few simple words. IE. These are ORA/Tyree corals and I imported them legally. That is all that it would take to clear this whole thing up. Unlike the people who are mocking me I do not want him to devulge his source/method or anything of remotely close to that.

You guys have smoked me out.....Im dizzy. You win. I DONT CARE. It is not that important to me to fight a whole forum including moderators on something this trival. Like I said I dont even believe in the dang law. I just did'nt think it's fair if one store was illegally bringing in these corals. The only fact here is I dont know how he does it (which is fine) but Paul is the only store I know that is.....maybe one day I be able to walk into a LFS here and see some ORA plugs....but it hasnt happened yet.

I hope at least a few of you can read my posts and understand my heart was in the right place. Unlike what some have said about me....I'm just an honest aquarist who mabye stuck his nose where it wasnt wanted.

ha....something tells me not to hold my breath for the thank you....but it sure would be a nice surprise.:lol:

Just so everyone knows, please remember that I am no longer affiliated with Oceanic Corals on a business or Vendor standpoint but still retain my original member name....

Just don't want to confuse anyone with my comments or opinions as they are purely from my standpoint only and not necessarily the opinion of Paul....

Ian

I realize everyone is having fun here, but this thread has reached the end of it's life.

Closed.