I will defrost 1-2 days worth of meat at a time and keep it in an airtight container in the fridge. I feed twice a day, both portions on the small side. When it comes time to defrost more food I use a new container. I let them clean their bowls really well and then give them a wash at least once a week.

You can switch your dog to raw right away with little to no effect (i have never seen any). Just be sure not to feed too much or they get backed up (raw food barf is pretty gross).

I still let my dogs kiss me, but not right after a meal. And keep in mind too that their poops could contain salmonella and stuff. I think if you follow proper meat handling precautions then you will be fine :)

-Diana

Well, I wouldn't let my dog lick my face immediatley after eating chicken (mostly), and common sense goes a long way. Kids are more susceptible I imagine because their faces are at licking height and perhaps they're not as tolerant to bacteria as adults.
To start out, I'd feed mostly boneless chicken for a few days, until the dog builds up higher enzyme levels. After that, you can start feeding more bone, different meats, etc. Some are richer than others, ie; venison, moose (most game).
Getting it right is pretty simple, I keep containers in the fridge that I rotate from frozen to thawed. Wash the bowls well afterwards, and if feeding large pieces that they can carry away, make sure you clean up the eating area, or the crate, wherever they eat.
I live on my own and have a large yard, so I often just hand them a chicken leg/back and let them run out in the yard with it. Bad days, they eat in their crates, and I spray it down afterwards.
More work than kibble, sure, but worth it for those of us that, well, think it's worth it :)

Which pretty much follows my eating habits, but I still can't afford organic meat. If it was 10% more, no problem, but I've seen it 3x regular meat. That just isn't going to happen.
If prices come into a reasonable range (which is likely not possible due to volume) then I'll happily switch over.

This all makes sense and I think I will probably do something similar. I am a bit of a cleanliness freak at times so I will probably feed him out on the balcony where I can hose it down after and disinfect if I feel the need. I have a feeling if I give him a bone that he will drag it all over the place!

Thanks, I think I will start with boneless, small portions as you say. I will probably try it with both my dog and cats actually.

I have also seen organic chicken about 2-3 times the cost of regular! It really is too bad...

Ah, and maybe this is where there is conflict, cus I don't really eat chicken. I think maybe once in the last 3 months. We buy those PC meatless "chicken" breasts that cost $11 for 8 breasts or something like that. Chicken tends to turn me off nowadays, even if its organic.

As far as other meats, I've found beef to be a little more expensive and buffalo pretty much comparable to organic beef, if not even cheaper. We had buffalo NY striploin steaks the other night and they were DIVINE! :D Oh and $5 a steak too.

actualy we do.. over years we have adapted to skip meals but there are ameno acid chains in meat you can't get from nuts, seads, ect.. plus then you are eating a tone of carbs which is anoth thing we were not originaly designed to eat.. humans originated as hunter/gatherers so yes berrys and nuts were eaten in season, but meat was the primary staple of our diet. if you realy want something to think about, why is it that we in north america never realy started to get fat and overweight as an average untill the goverment released the food guid during ww2 when we were cut off from our natural cooking oil sources from overseas. they replaced cocunut oil with rape seed oil (kanola) and started pushing grains as a staple at the same time due to pressures from the agricultrual industry to boost grain sales.

there is a lot of interesting reading on things like this. one of the funnest ratings is "organic"

here are some experts in the organic rules.

"For raising animals, antibiotics would not be permitted as growth stimulants but would be permitted to counter infections. The rules permit up to 20% of animal feed to be obtained from non-organic sources."

studdies have showen there are a lot more sick animals in "organic" farms. so I think farmers are faking there animale are sick so they can use the "growth stimulants"

"Irradiation, which can reduce or eliminate certain pests, kill disease-causing bacteria, and prolong food shelf-life, would be permitted during processing. Genetic engineering would also be permissible."

"More Nutritious?
Organic foods are certainly not more nutritious [12]. The nutrient content of plants is determined primarily by heredity. Mineral content may be affected by the mineral content of the soil, but this has no significance in the overall diet. If essential nutrients are missing from the soil, the plant will not grow. If plants grow, that means the essential nutrients are present. Experiments conducted for many years have found no difference in the nutrient content of organically grown crops and those grown under standard agricultural conditions."

"Most studies conducted since the early 1970s have found that the pesticide levels in foods designated organic were similar to those that were not. In 1997, Consumer Reports purchased about a thousand pounds of tomatoes, peaches, green bell peppers, and apples in five cities and tested them for more than 300 synthetic pesticides. Traces were detected in 77% of conventional foods and 25% of organically labeled foods, but only one sample of each exceeded the federal limit.
Pesticides can locate on the surface of foods as well as beneath the surface. The amounts that washing can remove depends on their location, the amount and temperature of the rinse water, and whether detergent is used. Most people rinse their fruits and vegetables with plain water before eating them. In fact, Consumer Reports on Health has recommended this [15].Consumer Reports stated that it did not do so because the FDA tests unwashed products. The amount of pesticide removed by simple rinsing has not been scientifically studied but is probably small. Consumer Reports missed a golden opportunity to assess this."

anyways it goes on and on..

I am not bashing anyone for eating organicly, there are various reasons to but there are also reasons not to, so to each his own. I just wanted to point out that the organic system is flawed and there are a lot of loophols.. many more than I quoted. there are even things like "35% of the farmers crops have to be organic to get him the certifications. the mothers of "organic" cows don't have to be organic. and so on..

Steve

Bison is fantastic (we don't have buffalo in north america :mrgreen:) it also happens to be one of the best meats you can eat, almost as low fat a chicken, more iron than venison, low calorie, low cholesterol, plus a host of vitimins, acids, and so on. and they are a "true" organic meat even though they are not marketed as organic usaly.

I have been buing more and more bison. only thing is you have to cook it slower over low heat or it gets dry.

Oh goody goodness! I've been debating this with people often! Its simple scientific fact!

Steve could you please cite the source? Not only is it usually required :razz: .... but I would love to reference it myself! Thanks! :mrgreen:

Haha, of course its not more nutritious, but its better for you. Sometimes I find myself saying 'organic' to replace 'free range non medicated' and stuff like that cus its just easier. I bet you anything some organic meats are still raised in factory-like settings... this is where reading the labels and doing a little research into labels comes in handy. I'm on the fence whether or not I want to eat an animal that has been treated and killed poorly, or whether it has incurred medication or GMO's. Neither is preferable.

Dang it, i know it too, but the silly market calls it buffalo and i just can't help it :D.

And I have to disagree with you on us needing meat everyday, having studied human development extensively in my archaeology and anthropology classes. "Hunter gatherers" eat mostly on the gatherers side, not on the meat side. There are many groups of people alive today that still rely on similar subsistence strategies where meat is only eaten on the off-chance of a kill, which does not happen very frequently. Nuts supply an amazing amount of protien for most people. While subsistence remains are biased in the archaeological record due to preservation issues, the evidence shows that plant remains vastly outweigh animal remains in many many prehistoric groups. Plus you could look at our closest relatives, chimpanzees, and see that their diet is mostly vegetarian. Insects and occasional meat support the leaves, fruits and nuts.

Within the last 4000 years is where it starts to get funny. I don't think the pastoral and agriculture subsistence practices have been around long enough for us to really see any long term effects on our health as a species.

GreenSpottedPuffer is right, we are putting everything 'out of sight, out of mind'. I am fully 100% guilty of it too, almost everything in my house probably comes from China :sad:. I wish it could be different, but its not. So I will start making changes for the future. To make it better, for not just me, but for all life.

i just got a red bone coonhound not to long ago she is 4 months now and i am feeding her acana puppy food right now
my Q? for all of you is cun you supplement them with raw food ?
say some dog food in the morning and some raw food for dinner

Sure, just make sure a good 8 hours has passed since the kibble, you want to make sure it's fully digested. This is from things I've read, tho, never done it myself. I think some others here have....

man, that was from about 40 sites. just type in organic food regulations.. you'll be reading for months.

Steve

I called our local butcher, they make up to 200lbs of dog food base per week (which is pretty impressive for the smaller community I live in), they use ground beef mixed 50/50 with beef heart. Not exactly what I was looking for, but it's something. It was 2.49 per pound, which seemed reasonable to me, less expensive than purchasing the products individually from the IGA or SuperValu we have locally. So you may want to at least inquire at a butcher.

I would say you'd want to expand on that though, just straight beef isn't enough. You need organ meat (liver, kidney, anything weird you can find) as well as bone. I'd also add in some other meats, chicken/pork/fish, etc.

I read your never supposed to mix meats? unless you meat rotate them... and I also read something somewhere about pork being bad?

let me find this article


-Diana

Ah, found it. Its not so bad, just need to take an extra step to freeze it:

"I've heard about trichinosis and pork. Is it safe to feed pork? As with many other food items, feeding pork is purely a personal choice. But yes, it CAN be fed, safely. Some dogs do very well on pork and others don't (loose stools). If you'd like to feed pork but are afraid of possible trichinosis, it is recommended that the pork be frozen, at Zero degrees F for 3 weeks, to kill the flukes. The incidence of trichinosis is actually fairly minimal in most places now (particularly in inspected meats). Many have fed fresh pork (pork necks, being a favorite) without any ill side-effects. Be aware of smoked pork necks, as they are slightly cooked from the smoking process. Pigs feet can also be fed, but are very high in fat...something you may want to avoid if your dog needs to lose a pound or two."


From this site, its an excellent read:

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm


-Diana

Ya, I mentioned earlier about freezing pork for a month. And salmon for 24 hours

Thanks, I am going to look into this for sure.

Last night I fed my cats some raw chicken and boy did they love it! I didn't want to overdo it but after the small amount I gave them, they were chasing me around and crying for more...crazy because my cats never beg for food!

It was easier than I thought with the cats because they are pretty clean and ate all the food in one place and also cleaned themselves well after. I doubt if I had kids that I would allow my cats to eat raw chicken in case they went and licked them after eating. For the cats though, I think this will just be a treat a few times a week to supplement the EVO they usually get.

I was surprised to see and hear how many of the bones the cats ate!

that would make my dog eat better than I do :wink:, at about 130 bucks a month that would not be a cost effective answer. you can make it yourself and put more variaty into it and probably get down to a little over 1-1.50/ lb.

Steve

I started my pup out tonight with 2 chicken wings, some chicken liver and fish oil. No veggies yet as I am still trying to figure out which to use and how much.

I will keep you guys posted on how it goes. I have to admit after watching how fast he eats the chicken, I am a little worried about the bones! Is there anything to worry about? Some the bones are so small and look like they could easily get stuck in his throat or puncture something.

Raw bones don't really splinter... but a puppy might be so excited to eat this delicious raw food that he doesn't chew it properly. Maybe giving him bigger bones would be better, that way he is forced to chew them up instead of inhaling them. :)

As Diana mentioned, raw bones don't splinter and crack into sharp edges like cooked bones do. You're probably fine with wings, but how big is the dog? My pup is about 25 pounds right now and she's eating necks and backs without problem. My big girl just ate an entire carcass (about 500 gm) in about 20 seconds, pretty sure there wasn't a lot of chewing involved :)

He is only about 12 lbs. He pretty much inhaled the two wings.

I just switched them cold turkey. Believe it or not, they had no issues with it at all. If my dogs get into my client's dog's food, they do get sick though.

I'd maybe try some thighs, they're a little bigger and might force some more chewing. The initial chewing triggers a release of enzymes which asist in digestion. When you first start with the bones, it's not uncommon (IME) to have them vomit up a piece or two until they build up enough digestive juices to really dissolve the bone.