has anyone who has taken the vaccine turned into a zombie yet???

.. dang, where'd I put that shotgun..

I'm all freaked out today because I feel like I am getting sick. Feels like a head cold. I hope it stays that way.

Sorry to hear about your condition BlueTang, and your co-worker. That is scary.

Yes. I read about it on the internet.

I wouldn't freak out too much, there is still lots of other colds and flus going around not just H1N1. Tis the season! A lot of people that have gotten the swine flu didn't even know they had it, everyone get effected differently. Whether people get the vaccine or not we can't live our lives in fear or paranoia otherwise we're not living at all.

here's GlaxoSmithKline's own product fact sheet,
please read:
http://preventdisease.com/news/pdf/G...tober_2009.pdf
"List of Excipients
Antigen suspension vial: Thimerosal, sodium chloride, disodium hydrogen phosphate, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, potassium chloride, water for injections. The drug substance contains trace residual amounts of egg proteins, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and sucrose.
Adjuvant emulsion vial: sodium chloride, disodium hydrogen phosphate, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, potassium chloride, water for injections."

then down near the bottom
"What the important nonmedicinal ingredients are:
Thimerosal,a mercury derivative is added as preservative. Each dose contains 2.5 micrograms of mercury. Other ingredients include: squalene, vitamin E, polysorbate 80 and trace amounts of egg proteins, formaldehyde, sodium deoxycholate and sucrose."

then the side effects!
"As with all medicines, AREPANRIX™ H1N1can cause side effects. The very common and common side effects are usually mild and should only last a day or two.
Very common (may occur with more than 1 in 10 doses):
• Pain at the injection site
• Headache
• Fatigue
• Redness or swelling at the injection site
• Shivering
• Sweating
• Aching muscles, joint pain
Common (may occur with up to 1 in 10 doses):
• Reactions at the injection site such as bruising, itching and warmth
• Fever
• Swollen lympth nodes
• Feeling sick, diarrhea
Uncommon (may occur with up to 1 in 100 doses):
• Dizziness
• Generally feeling unwell
• Unusual weakness
• Vomiting, stomach pain, uncomfortable feeling in the stomach or belching after eating
• Inability to sleep
• Tingling or numbness of the hands or feet
• Shortness of breath
• Pain in the chest
• Itching, rash
• Pain in the back or neck, stiffness in the muscles, muscle spasms, pain in extremity such as leg or hand
Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses):
• Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases
• Fits
• Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves
• Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising
Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses):
• Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems)
• Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome
If any of these side effects occur, please tell your doctor or nurse immediately. If any of the side effects gets serious, or if you notice any side effects not listed in this leaflet, please
tell your doctor."

what concerns me chemically: Thimerosal, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, squalene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squalene
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysorbate_80
or call the company or the people administering the vaccine and ask:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O8beEBxdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QKNhgdno10

...... long story short :mrgreen: , i would never get one, especially for a virus as weak as the H1N1.
4000-8000 Canadians will die this year of normal flu. there is so much mis/dis-information out there its hard to make any kind of educated choice so i go with my gut. and for a long time i haven't had the most trust in the government. i mean who would come to trust some person who comes to extort you every year?
ex⋅tor⋅tion
  /ɪkˈstɔrʃən/ [ik-stawr-shuhn]
–noun
1. an act or instance of extorting.
2. Law. the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority.
3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers.
4. anything extorted.
and as for the conspiracy side of this discussion
con⋅spir⋅a⋅cy
  /kənˈspɪrəsi/[kuhn-spir-uh-see]
–noun, plural -cies.
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
did someone say Monsanto?
or the IMF?
or the UN for that matter...
history has shown that governments are by far the worst of the isms to plague humanity.
Stalin
Mao
Hitler
i know 2 of the 3 were for drugging the water with chemicals like fluoride to make a docile population.
3 of 3 were for gun control.
3 of 3 were for central banking.
and the list goes on :mrgreen:
the swine flu or h1n1 really is a joke in our world today.
what about the starving and homeless? how many die each year from having no or not enough food, or no or not enough shelter? or have a severely impaired life because of it. or even worse what about the people who die from easily treated diseases, like Diarrhea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarrhea
i'm sure it makes the 4000-8000 Canadians that die from normal flu every year seem pretty meager.

food for thought?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYgLLahHv8

Your right 4000-8000 is pretty meager....until it's your own 13 yr old, otherwise healthy, son/daughter that dies from something as mild as the flu

These are exactly the same potential side effects from any vaccine ever made. The risk profile is the same. So you're either okay with vaccines in general or you're not. The vast majority of people will have no side effects or at most soreness at the injections site. Some people will feel a bit ill with aches and pains or headaches or nausea etc. This is probably from your immune system ramping up to produce antibodies due to the vaccine.

The uncommon side effects are very rare and do not generally even happen 1 in a 1000.

Do you really believe everything you see on youtube or read on wikipedia? Wikipedia is notoriously inaccurate because anybody from the public can go on there and write or edit content.

Those youtube videos are ridiculous and again are a product of fear and ignorance. The vaccine does not contain elemental mercury or organomercury compounds. Thimerosal has low toxicity and is rapidly excreted from your body anyhow. You need to go back and read my earlier post.

The amount of these components is tiny and well below any level that will cause toxicity. There is less mercury in a shot of vaccine then in a can of tuna (which incidently is in the more toxic organomercury form). If you are that concerned about mercury you better not eat fish anymore.

Squalene is a common ingredient in moisturizing lotions and is also safe unless you take in huge amounts. Trace amounts of formaldehyde means barely detectable in the vaccine. Your own body probably produces more formaldehyde through your own metabolism then you will find in the vaccine and has mechanisms to deal with and excrete it. One thing people need to realize is that pretty much everything and anything is toxic. It all depends on how much you are exposed to. The small amounts of these compounds found in the vaccine are not toxic. I REPEAT, NOT TOXIC.

Sorry to yell but the FUDD being generated around this vaccine is really starting to annoy me. Those youtube videos are nothing but an uninformed layperson panicking over something he clearly does not understand.

While H1N1 is currently not the most deadly flu ever, it is more serious then the normal seasonal flu. It IS causing the deaths of people who would not normally be considered at risk from regular seasonal flu and it IS more dangerous to those with other underlying medical conditions.

My bigger worry is that the more people infected and the more it spreads, the greater the chance it could mutate into an even more virulent and deadly strain. Large scale vaccination can help prevent that.

I think I need to make a youtube video about how H1N1 is going to mutate and kill us all and therefore we all need to be vaccinated:lol:

again million die yearly due to things that are more preventable then h1n1. so i guess at that point i would have to weigh the price of my son/daughter's life against someone else's son/daughter's life.....

whats the difference between what you say and Wikipedia? bring me some facts bro. your just saying things. not to say they arnt true. i would just like to know your sources on these things:

i was listening to the news yesterday and it said you had about a 1 in 250 thousand chance to get killed by h1n1 in Canada. or:
"Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 1000 doses):
• Allergic reactions leading to a dangerous decrease of blood pressure, which, if untreated, may lead to shock. Doctors are aware of this possibility and have emergency treatment available for use in such cases
• Fits
• Severe stabbing or throbbing pain along one or more nerves
• Low blood platelet count which can result in bleeding or bruising
Very Rare (may occur with up to 1 in 10,000 doses):
• Vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels which can cause skin rashes, joint pain and kidney problems)
• Neurological disorders such as encephalomyelitis (inflammation of the central nervous system), neuritis (inflammation of nerves) and a type of paralysis known a Guillain-Barré Syndrome"
from this vaccine.

lets line the pockets of big pharma some more..... how many doctors will give hard core Amphetamine's and such to children these days? so i don't know how much trust i can put in the medical system anymore.

what exactly are you talking about? even on the GSK site it says their vaccines contain different additives, and not too surprisingly different side effects. some are more or less dangerous, but it seems evident that the h1n1 is more dangerous then the average booster shot your child gets.
check out the ingredients and side effects of just these few, none seem even similar:
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/T...0080916_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/I...0080718_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/P...0081103_EN.pdf
http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/B...0091021_EN.pdf

where do you get the notion that every vaccine is the same and always will be?

Now we're getting a little off topic. This started out with people's real but uninformed fears of the vaccine to weird Libertarian conspiracy theories.

Look at the other Youtube videos by the posters of those 2 videos.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=STEVEDIGIBOYtv#g
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TFPCVideoBlog#g

TFPC is the Truth and Freedom Party of Canada
Here are some of their other ideas: http://tfpc.ca


I'm surprised they have not come up with some theory about the government and big pharma sending their UFO's to spread more flu virus in the spaceship's contrails.

Well, I have university degrees in toxicology and pharmacology and have spent umpteen years working in pharmaceutical R&D as well as diagnostic microbiology labs so I think that makes me more qualified then some guy making youtube videos etc. or people regurgitating stuff on wikipedia :smile: If you really want to do research read things from real scientific websites or publications. Stuff from real experiments and real testing in real labs or real clinical trials with actual data to support the conclusions.

Most testing puts the level of mercury in canned tuna at between .3 and about .55 parts per million (depending on what type of tuna you eat). I won't list all the calculations but that works out to well over 50 micrograms of methylmercury in an average serving of tuna. The vaccine contains 5 micrograms of thimerosal which is also a much less toxic mercury containing compound then methylmercury. if you want to get really picky, thimerosal contains just under 50% mercury by weight so you are getting about 2.5 micrograms of mercury from the vaccine. Methylmercury contains about 93% mercury so your serving of tuna is over 46.5 micrograms of mercury.

There have been numerous flu pandemics in the past with much more deadly strains of flu then the current H1N1. Somebody asked earlier about the PB1-F2 protein which is a protein some flu viruses produce that increases their ability to kill the cells they infect. It appears that some of the viruses from those deadlier pandemics did produce PB1-F2. Production of that protein has been shown to cause significantly more inflammation and higher mortality rates in the infected animals. The H1N1 virus does contain the gene to produce the PB1-F2 protein but it is currently turned off by a stop codon in the DNA code (basically a label in the DNA that says do not encode this gene right now). It is not inconceivable that the virus could mutate and this stop codon would be removed therefore activating the PB1-F2 gene and creating a more virulent and deadly strain of H1N1. Don't ask me the odds of that. I'm not a viral geneticist. But I know enough to know it could happen and the odds of it happening are more likely the more the virus reproduces. So reduce the spread of the virus, you reduce the occurrence of viral reproduction and you reduce the number of mutations that occur so therefore there is a lower chance of this mutation happening. The flu virus is constantly mutating, probably in your own body when you catch the flu. The majority of these mutations are either neutral or negative to the virus but statistically speaking, the more often mutations occur the greater the chance of a mutaion that makes the virus stronger.

Okay, everybody else who is a toxicologist, raise your hand:mrgreen: I do know a bit about this stuff.

See above. Basic genetics, evolution and virology.

I really don't want to get into a whole textbook on biochemistry and physiology. You'll have to trust me on that one or do some reading about it yourself. Your body produces a lot of noxious waste material as it goes about its daily business and it also takes in many toxic compounds normally through our food, water and air. We have evolved wonderful mechanisms to break down and excrete all sorts of things. Formaldehyde is a very common compound in nature and one which your body is more than capable of dealing with unless you are drinking an entire bottle of it.

As for those side effects, that is typical lawyer super conservative stuff. If 1 in 1000 people suffered those kinds of side effects from flu vaccines then there would be a public outcry every flu season and we would not be using them so commonly. The odds of having those severe reactions are probably more like 1 in a million.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYgLLahHv8
so JFK was just pulling our leg?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY
or Eisenhower?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdqA4rjrAbM
Woodrow Wilson too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdqA4rjrAbM

yeah, i guess the former presidents of the united states don't have much insight on the true workings of the world we live. don't forget the last answer on the poll guys :mrgreen:

i'm not doubting that. but at the same time didn't this flu come from a random mutation of swine flu, avian flu, and an older strain of influenza that is causing us our problems now? sorry about initial skepticism some people who come up with complex answers like you were in such a short time are often BS'ing :mrgreen: . from the umpteen years working in pharmaceutical R&D as well as diagnostic microbiology lab you must know about the million of different types of bacteria and viruses there are. how many could possibly change and become deadly?
and when that happens do we make a new vaccine for this mutation? and that mutations mutation, untill we receive 3 or 4 seasonal flu shots?
and if we just keep taking a vaccines for every meager illness that comes along what effect will that have on our immune systems in the long term?
do we really understand the processes in which viral natural selection work well enough to start making judgments on whats best for the human immune system over vast amounts of time?
do we ever care to look or think about 10 or even 100 years down the road?
i would agree that some vaccines do outweigh the slight risks (and yes even in my mind they are very slim) but in my mind there are greater challenges killing way more innocent lives in our world that need to be dealt with before making such a hype fest out of this shot. IMO if saving lives is your business, making vaccines is an awful expensive way to go about it.

as for the rest of the toxicology stuff, i must admit i'm not expert.
but whats your opinion on aspartame from a toxicological point of view?
i find one of the few things in our society that is still always innocent until proven guilty are chemicals.
at what point does something safe in small doses start to add up because it in everything?
how many shots will eventually contain these or worse preservatives in the future?
i assume, if we do like you suggest and vaccinate every time a mild virus comes by how many more vaccines might there be in 50 years?
there are many things you can do to naturally stimulate your immune system, like exercise, but look at the obesity problems faced by many. is a shot, that doesn't even give near 100% protection worth the time and effort spent?
would getting more people to eat healthy and exercise have a far greater impact with drastically less costs?

Conspiracies are not off topic since they are included in the poll. I'm still absolutely amazed at how many people find it that impossible to believe there is more to the world than they know. This is not a world of equals and never will be. Think of the Rothschild family.

Do people really think because they are scientists and can explain every ingredient in a vaccine, off a list that was provided to them, that it means everything is as it seems? I don't mean any disrespect and as I said earlier I don't necessarily think this one is a conspiracy but not everything can be explained in a lab.

Someone please explain to me how it is so impossible for a conspiracy to be possible?

I would like to mention something about the mercury comments above- eating 50 micrograms of tuna is very different than injecting 5 micrograms. Your body has all sorts of systems in place to filter out toxins but when you chose to inject the toxins you are bypassing all of those "filter systems"

Conspiracies are definitely not off topic. I started this thread & conspiracies very a part of it. This has been a great thread & I hope I'm not the only one to admit learning a thing or to from reading it.

I don't think you can use 'uninformed' as a blanket term to describe people's fears here. There are a lot of people out there who think it's actually the 'uninformed' who have no fear of the H1N1 vaccine.

Great that we have Ron here to provide real scientific answers but also, worrying that so many others ridicule the possibility that so many of us think that something doesn't seem right about the whole thing.

As GSP says, "how it is so impossible for a conspiracy to be possible?"

.

It's a man made product, why couldn't they explain every ingredient?

I keep an open mind about the stupid and evil things that the rich and powerful are capable of and nothing would really surprise but one has to use their common sense....Being powerful would be meaningless if you killed off all us little people :razz:

So I guess you built and maintained all the roads you drive on? Pay for the police force so you're not murdered or robbed daily? Pay for the military so you're not working in a concentration camp? Pay for the doctors, hospitals and ambulances for broken bones, cancer, etc.? The endless social list goes on. Talk about thinking that the world owes you a living! The money isn't always spent wisely but all those essential services are there and available to all Canadians. Extortion would imply that you are getting nothing in return but you are just taking for granted everything you have in one of the best countries in the world. Our high standard of living doesn't come free. I bitch about taxes too but people need to stop and think about what hey are getting and also think of others being helped with disabilities or handicaps who would otherwise lead very short miserable lives. I am young, healthy and working and this group pays the most so it is easy to feel ripped off, but health and age change very quickly.:wink:

??????
 

I can hardy stand to read this anymore, it is obvious to me that some people on here do not have kids or family members. I cannot believe that some people would not get this vaccine to save lives and reduce the chance of severity to family members. I have a six week old baby at home and if i brought this into my house and gave it too my children and something terrible was to happen, i would never forgive myself. Wake up people, this is not some conspiracy, this is the beginning of a pandemic, do what you will, but remember this. If you or your family decide not to take the vaccine, I truly hope you are not the one, sitting at a bedside watching as another is on a ventilator. I cannot and will not take that chance with my family. Bottom line- What are you willing to risk?

Well in this case I agree that that list of ingredients is probably accurate but I just meant unless people are actually testing it themselves, who's to say the list they are getting is complete. Talk all you want about regulations and testing but there are ALWAYS ways around it.

I don't recall the percentage but its well above 50% and I think closer to 80% of large corporation CEO's show behavioral and emotional characteristics of psychopathy, meaning they show chronic disregard for ethical principles and antisocial behavior. I'm sure many other powerful people/families are no different. Being powerful often times means they do not care in any way, shape or form about the little people. I think the theory of wanting to kill all but 500, 000 million people is out there too but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true that someone or an organization wants it that way and thats my only point...its possible. Dont think it will ever happen.

It wasnt all that long ago there was a dictator who tried to establish a New Order in Europe and came VERY close to succeeding after occupying most of Europe, North Africa and parts of Asia. I dont think people like this are thinking too much about how many of the little guy survive.

But I also dont believe that swine flu or the vaccine are part of any conspiracy...I just dont see how conspiracies are so silly.

Well my daughter has something. Very high temperature, sore throat, back pain. Started
her on tylenol last night and have been giving it every 4 hours. She say's she feels better this morning and has eaten soup and toast. This really sucks!:sad2:

there are some taxes i have no problem with. gas tax helps pay for roads, cigarette/alcohol/gambling taxes help out health care. education is from your property taxes. but often we are lead to some kind of disillusionment about how our government governs us. it has always and shall be until they change it a government by consent. you have a choice to buy gas, lotto tickets, liquor, or live a city or the country. but as far as the government is concerned income tax is one of those things you just don't have a choice over whether you consent to it or not. if the government finds out you make money lawfully, and you aren't paying your taxes, they arn't going to tell the police to stop protecting you, or doctors to stop treating you, or for you to not drive on highways. they are going to harass you with agents, arrest you and try hard as they can to lock you up for not consenting to their taxation system, another person in jail for a victimless crime. there's no denial of service. plus i would like to add the cost is around 30K per year per male and 50k per female per year to put in jail white collar or not. not to mention the court and enforcement costs of taxes. if i was jailed for not paying income tax it would be a vast net loss to the government, but they don't seem to care, and do it all the time. is it worth the intimidation and incarceration of its people just so they pay their taxes?
but its not just that its unjust, and unlawful to incarcerate someone who doesn't pay taxes. because they aren't just giving you benefits from the government for the exchange of your tax dollars, they are giving you a choice: if you work in Canada we want our cut or else you live in jail. and that's not what i think Canada should stand for. because i doubt everyone lived in a giant prison before income taxes were created during WW1. so whay should that be the case now? the banking/economic systems today is seriously unhealthy if you haven't noticed. i know in the USA today 95% of all wealth is divided among less then 1% of the people, Canada is a little bit better, but not much. our current income tax code does not reflect this great divide in prosperity, and probably never will considering the lobbying powers of the wealthy.

Money as Debt
Money as Debt II
THE CRIME OF THE CANADIAN BANKING SYSTEM
please check out the Auditor generals report of 1993.
from the section: Chapter 5—Information for Parliament—Understanding Deficits and Debt
"The cost of borrowing
5.41 The cost of borrowing is the third area that affects the annual deficit. In 1991-92, the interest on the debt was $41 billion. This cost of borrowing and its compounding effect have a significant impact on Canada's annual deficits. From Confederation up to 1991-92, the federal government accumulated a net debt of $423 billion. Of this, $37 billion represents the accumulated shortfall in meeting the cost of government programs since Confederation. The remainder, $386 billion, represents the amount the government has borrowed to service the debt created by previous annual shortfalls.

5.42 We do not take a position on whether budgets should be balanced, or accumulated debt should be reduced. We are simply illustrating the long-term effects of compounding interest charges.

5.43 The amount of debt . The total cost of borrowing is influenced by three factors: the amount of debt, its management, and the rate of interest on the portfolio of debt. Exhibit 5.3 shows that, since Confederation, Canada has consistently used debt financing to cover some of the cost of operations. By the end of World War II, the accumulated debt was at $13 billion, giving a debt-to-GDP ratio of approximately 108 percent. Most observers of government financing would agree that the high debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of World War II was caused by the need to generate substantial industrial production for the war effort without resorting to taxation to cover its full cost. This meant that immediately after the war, there was considerable room for expenditure reduction through cuts in defence spending. "

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/im...nt/93055-e.gif



1976 Swine Flu
46 million took the shot. 4000 claimed injury.
46,000,000/4000=1 in 11500
granted it could be more or less, depending on: how many reactions were attributed to swine flu but was another condition, or how many people were injured by the shot and didn't know or said nothing ect.

I missed a couple days of this because my "mild" flu took a turn and I couldn't walk without smashing into things. Seriously, if you haven't had this you have no idea.

Blue Tang, sorry about your friend, hope you are feeling better.

Ron99, thanks for your participation, nice to hear from somebody that knows their stuff.

Dingbats and loonies, I've always looked on you people with the type of fondness one shows a three legged dog, it's not your fault you look silly. In this case I have to say your stupidity is putting other people at risk.

Thanks to pinhead we can see that many of the same people that are convinced the flu shot is unnecessary or is going to hurt them also believe that there is a secret program involving planes flying over our cities dumping strange chemicals into the air that modify our behavior. They also believe that the US Government carried out the world trade center attacks, these people are idiots. There is a tendency in our society to be respectful to people regardless of what strange ideas they hold. This is generally a good thing, otherwise we'd have scientologists hanging from trees. However there is a point where good intentioned debate and niceties are no longer appropriate and this point is right at the end of my nose.

Your inability to understand math puts me and my family at risk, that is not okay. 2.5 micrograms of a non toxic mercury compound isn't going to hurt anyone. The squalene additive in the GSK vaccine has been used in 22 million doses in the UK. There is no extraordinary danger in this vaccine, count to 22 million on your fingers and toes.

If someone has a rational question about how this vaccine works I'd love to hear it. Dingbats be quiet, adults are talking.

sorry to hear that.
do you remember history? who has done the most damage to humanity? governments. look at Stalin, Hitler, and Mao. Hitler was democratically elected, and his political contributions came from vast sources, even traceable to the British royal family, and the Bush family. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar
remember the Canadian government put Japanese in concentration camps during WW2. our governments stupidity and its more then willingness to cover it up is really what costs lives of families.

my ability should have no effect on you. you have a brain, use it, if you want it use it. i personally will not put anything in my body like that unless its a dire circumstance, small pox for example. but again this is choice. again anything anyone says should have no effect on you making choices for your family's health. especially when its on some internet forum or such :mrgreen:.
like it was said by many presidents in one way or another; i am assured that the people, when properly informed, will not fail to act in the appropriate manner.

yeah, so childishness aside.....
what don't you like about what i said?
where are your facts that say no the product information sheet from GSK is wrong? it lists some pretty bad side effects. where are your studies your relying on to prove that what your giving your child is safe?
i'm quoting from government and manufacturing guides.
i just don't like when you make a blanket statement like everyone who thinks there might be something wrong with a vaccine is a "Dingbat" and should "be quiet"

1. why do you think that 9/11 was real? because if you believe the government, you are now part of the minority that thinks 9/11 happened exactly as the government said. i would like to know what you base your bashing of other peoples ideas for.
2. no one is talking about chem trails accept for you and pinhead so yeah....
3. why do you sound so sure of everyone's beliefs? look at the poll numbers
55 i'm taking it
64 no
24 it's a conspiracy
we will leave the others out beacuse i would say its a 50/50 chance they get it or not.
so your blanket statements really make it seem like at least 1 in 6 responding to this poll is a nut job.

Well for me the whole point is moot because I can't get my vaccine until the middle of dec at the earliest....If this is a conspiracy to do away with the little people then its a pretty poor one :lol:

If they are not taking the vaccine because they think:
1) it's some horrible plot by the government to hurt them
2) it's some untested evil thing full of toxins
3) It's a conspiracy to enrich pharm companies
4) The Rothchild's are out to get them

Then yes, nut job fits nicely, although dingbat would still be my preference.

wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.

I don't believe any one of those is true in this case and am on the fence about getting the vaccine but what makes someone a nut job because they believe in something that is different from what you believe?

So far your the only one throwing names out there and acting childish. You don't have to have the same beliefs as anyone else and that's what makes this such a great country but have some respect dude. Your only response so far is name calling?

Do you really believe that on absolutely NO level what so ever, criminal or political conspiracies exist? Do you really think there are no organizations, government or otherwise that could on some level be trying to deceive you for their own gain?

Please don't assume that those of us who believe in conspiracies believe that planes fly over cities dumping anything or that UFO's are being covered up or that the WHO is trying to kill off most of the world. People love the extremes but they are ridiculous. Its just your way of trying to make people look silly when in fact something like a drug company releasing a virus to cash in on the meds and vaccinations, hand sanitizers, ect. is NOT that out there...I don't believe that this time but how is that not possible?

Look up the word unlikely.

The facts have been stated over and over, there is no point in doing so again. There comes a point where politely engaging in reasoned debate becomes self defeating because it legitimizes asinine points of view. In a case where nothing is at stake there may be no consequences but this is a matter of public health. Lending any credibility to this garbage is a huge mistake and trying to refute it reasonably does that.

If it impacts the health of my family I will attack your character, your beliefs and whatever else I get a clean shot at. Wear a cup.

sigh.... again, wow, no facts, just attacking character and beliefs. how trollish.
seriously look at this thread where are these "facts" that "have been stated over and over again"?
the only real facts i see is GSK's own product info sheet....
where are these studies saying this vaccine is 100% safe?
where are the reports saying this vaccine is 100% tested?
where is the study that the vaccine is even worth while compared to other measures?

Agree to disagree and move on.

No matter what facts one puts out......... it's not going to change a persons beliefs.

Cheers,
Vic

The poll conducted on Canreef is unscientific. The key word again is Scientific. There is an area of mathematics called Biometrics or Biostatistics that is used to determine the statistical validity of the data obtained.

The way this poll is set up means you can't base any conclusions on it.

I would expect that most people picked the last choice to be clever and have a little fun rather than actually believing the government or corporations are behind the flu outbreak.

Thats what conspiracy theories, astrology, UFO's, parapsychology and the rest of the pseudosciences should be - entertainment.

When these things start determining your decisions regarding health care - that is your decision. When they effect the decisions regarding the healthcare of your children it is
irresponsible.


If you truly beleve in these things, there is nothing I can do to show you that you are wrong.
You have the right to make mistakes based on your beliefs

However my decisions are based not on beliefs but on evidence - science

the only conclusion i was drawing is that he was kinda being a jerk to 1/6th of the people who responded to this poll by saying if you think its a conspiracy, your mentally unsound in you beliefs and should be disregarded for it.
its fun to tell people what they believe and then tell others they should disregard those people because of their so called beliefs? i may not believe in creationism, but im also not going to say all creationists are Amish, racist, lepers, who also believes that god is waiting to kill all of us at any moment, and electricity is some type of golem waiting in the wall to commit evil acts. you guys seem like you want to shove beliefs and intentions down everyone's throats.

focus on the truth.... and yes i find most of that stuff pretty entertaining :lol: . i like provable, logical facts.

make an informed choice. there are varying opinions, and then the so called facts. please check out GSK's own product fact sheet for the vaccine it has been posted a few times already. they even state on the product info sheet this product has side effects. its in the fine print at the bottom :surprise: .

why not? if you have no proof to show me the vaccine is 100% safe and has no side effects, what am i to believe?
again GSK's own product information sheet states there ARE side effects.

that's fine, i just want to know what science? what specific piece or pieces of science makes your decision based on evidence? all i have been asking all along is i would like to see this science. so far what i have seen makes me believe the swine flu shot is not worth the associated risks considering the meager benefit. and until i see proof that says other wise my mind wont be changed, i'm sorry.

Not impossible but not very likely.

Occam's razor - entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

interpreted as: the simplest hypothesis is more likely to be the true than are any others

made up of genetic elements from four different flu viruses – North American swine influenza, North American avian influenza, human influenza, and swine influenza virus typically found in Asia and Europe – "an unusually mongrelised mix of genetic sequences."

whats the simplest hypothesis for four different viruses combining to make our h1n1 of today? a Mexican fertilizer pile baking in the sun or a laboratory?

After talking to my mom who is a nurse in a doctor's office, she has convinced me to get the vaccine.

She told me that the regular yearly flu shot has contained a very similar H1N1 virus of a weaker strain for several years. This "new" H1N1 isn't anything new at all, it's just a particularly strong strain we are seeing now. Old people aren't getting sick and dying from it because they have likely all been exposed to it many years ago, it's us young'uns that don't have any antibodies against it yet, so it being particularly strong it's kicking out butts.

My mom also said that the adjuvant that everyone is so worried about is not normally used in Canada, but has been used for "hundreds of years" overseas in Europe. She says that the clinic she works in has given several hundred H1N1 vaccines already, and they haven't had any reports of anyone getting any more sick than the usual flu shot (may make you). It's the adjuvant that makes your arm sore though, but it is supposedly no worse than a Tetanus shot.

Anyway...I changed my mind. I'm going to get mine. I have asthma, so I will be able to get mine on Monday.

Unfortunately, the evidence I could provide is from scientific journals based on research that is often funded by the government or by industry who are all part of the conspiracy.

Skepticism is fine and an open mind is a neccesary skill in a scientist. Sometimes a new discovery goes very much against our current thinking.

Science does not have all the answers. New experiments or new technology sometimes results in a completely different way of thinking of things.

However, any results must be repeatable and falsifiable.

Vaccine caused you to grow an extra big toe? Show that can happen again and again - except this time under controlled conditions so we know it was the vaccine and not something else. No evidence the vaccine causes you to grow an extra toe? Accepted until there are studies that would indicate something to the contrary.

To true believers, evidence not supporting their ideas is minimalized. They attack the evidence presented rather than providing evidence of their own.

So if you do not accept all the evidence presented to you - what evidence do you have? (and no more youtube or wikipedia)

And Occam's Razor was used to illustrate that between the theory that the pharmaceutical companies engineered H1N1 and released it to increase profits or that it is a naturally occuring pandemic - the former is not very likely.

Sorry to hear about your son. i herd detox works for autism but its a long process.
I agree and so NO to vaccines !

Say YES to Natural products and the main reason is the natural has no side effects, but all synthetic drugs do have side effects.

I think about it this way.. how many viruses are out there 1000's right?, so haw many shots can you take?
On this note have you guys herd about Health Canada bill C6?they are going after natural products .
STOP BILL C6 In CANADA!

More so taking a vaccine does Not guarantee that you will not get sick!

what book/journal? published by who? i dont mind going to the library or the internet to find out. i really don't care who it comes from. i'm only making my choice based on the FACTS SHEET i have gotten from the MAKER of the vaccine.
"Dissent is the truest form of patriotism"

they sure don't, and yes it usually takes someone thinking out side the current theories to invent or discover something new or innovative. i would just like to see more science and studies, and i don't mind looking for them if i'm told where or what to look for. but i didnt have to look any farther then GSK's own product fact sheet on the vaccine to see the associated risks were not worth the stated benefits .


HISTORY LESSON TIME!!!!
first off look up, Monstanto.
then look up, PCB's.
then look up, Anniston, Alabama.
lets wait and see what the government deems safe for us next!!!!! :mrgreen:

seriously now, stop toll'n it up bro. why do you constantly wish to avoid my questions about what problems you have with the side effect portion of GSK's own product fact sheet for the vaccine?

****please note:****
GSK's site is NOT i repeat, NOT youtube or wikipedia
GSK's product information site is NOT i repeat, NOT youtube or wikipedia

what makes you say that? i would just like to know your qualifications on understanding microbiological mutations.

I second wholeheartedly what FitoPharmer is saying.

To the history lessons i would add aspartame which is "safe" according to officials but actually turns in to formalin at body temperatures. just look up what it DOES to the human body!

It is crime, what corporations are doing to us and it is time to wake up !

The mane question is who benefits financially who is the stake holder? Yes its free in Canada so that means taxpayers, WE HAVE to pay.
Mr D. Cheiney is the main guy who invested in these vaccines, so who in the right mind would inject toxic chemicals and half dead virus in to a blood stream, bypassing all natual body means of fighting the virus ? and hope it would boost immunity ? what a joke!
All it does is creates a venue for making money thats all, if that is so hard to get in to someones head then go ahead and inject yourself and your poor kids with this H1N1 tomorrow you will get H2N2 and then H3N3.

tell to get ONE more vaccine to a parent of autistic child and listen to what they will tell you.