Going from the photo, think about this.

Have the top of the sump and ref and about the same height. Inter connect with a large bulkhead as low as you can on the ref (no valve). Assuming the pump is on the far right of the sump with no baffles to the right, the water level in the ref will be the same as the pump compartment. Use a auto topoff to maintain.

Have no baffles in the ref other than a strainer on the bulkhead and maybe some eggcrating in front of the strainer. Negative is if the strainer gets blocked ref overflows so place a second interconnect at the top.

With the interconnect below no bubbles like Untamed said.

Not sure of your planned height in your in the pump compartment but adjust the ref height to max the volume in the ref tub.

Yeah this is similar to what Untamed has suggested. I just got off the phone with him actually. I am going to have a gate valve though in the line between the fuge and sump to create a bit of a herbie effect. He was explaining to me how it doesnt matter if they are at the same height, having a gate valve will still allow me to keep the water height in the fuge higher than in the sump if I wanted or the other way around. Im not sure if that makes sense how I wrote it but I think I "get it" now.

So there will be a 2" line between the fuge and sump with a gate valve to control the water level in the fuge therefore also controlling how much water flows between the two. There will also be an emergency drain at the top of the fuge, just like a regular herbie.

I will post pics as soon as I get the plumbing father along.

But thank you to all you guys who have helped so far...I couldn't have even gotten this far without all your help!

...it won't ever work the other way around. You won't ever be able to make the fuge have LOWER water level than the sump. You probably wouldn't want that anyway!

No I would not. Wasn't really thinking of doing that either...just trying to say with the gate valve I get more control over the water levels!

Well most of the plumbing is just about done. I will post pics when I have a chance. I have a question though...

My closed loop is mostly dry fitted but I still am not sure about how to do the outputs. I am thinking of just using 2" 90's or 45's that are not cemented so that they can be pointed in most any direction. Any one have any reasons I should nto do it this way. Besides the extra cost, I do not want to use lock line because its output is too small. The other problem I have though is the Eurobracing getting in the way but I think I can work around that. Any thoughts?

My 75 has the outputs as non-glued in 90's off a T. Low tech, but it works fine. 5 years in now.. :eek:

I find Locline isn't all that restrictive though .. I guess the one counter argument is that if you do find it too restrictive, you can add more outputs (via T's) and then you have more flow-aiming options.. And it should be easy to work it around the Eurobracing. Just a thought. :)

How easy is it to go from 2" T's to loc line though? What is involved? I have never used loc line before actually.

What fittings would I need? For example, I see only 3/4" loc line on J&L's site. Would this even be big enough? I do agree, I could add more T's and that would actually be pretty good.

Would I basically have to use PVC fittings to reduce down from 2" to 3/4" and then use a 3/4" Modular Piping MPT Connector Fitting (threaded) and then the loc line and then whatever nozzle? Sound about right or is there a better way?

Nevermind. I just figured out what I would need to spend to do this right with Loc line and I cannot spend that much more on this tank right now. Its like close to $200 for just the loc line fittings for all my outlets and thats without any PVC fitting I would need! So probably like $225-250...Not happening! I added up everything the other day and Im at about $2000 now...Thats ontop of all the stuff I already had. Thats actually not so much for a tank of course but this was suppose to be a cheaper one! Especially being a FOWLR.

You need a bushing to go from 2" to 3/4" threaded (NPT or whatever it's called) and then the Locline just threads into that.

Sorry, I didn't realize your returns are 2", that is quite a size reduction. Although you could think about having more outputs I suppose. You could either plumb additional outputs with the pipe, or you could use Locline Y adapters (e.g., http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...t_ID=pl-mp034y )

I was editing my post while you wrote this one...Its pretty much out of the question. Im at 8 outlets now and the cost would be far too much. I really just don't like being able to see the 2" 45's coming down into the tank but oh well, for now they will have to do I guess...

Yeah, I understand. Maybe just do the 90's and see how they do, you can always change things around down the road if you want. Just keep them as high as possible maybe then you don't see them as prominently.

Yeah Im working on keeping them high enough so they will not be seen much but its hard with such a shallow tank! I will also be painting them black with Krylon as well which I think will help because the back of the tank is painted black. We will see...

Well I hate how the 45's coming down into the water look. Especially the front ones! Would a "half" closed loop be a waste? Like if I have 6 outlets across the back and then one on either side? I think because the tank is so shallow it would still give more than enough flow in the tank. This tank will be bare bottom, so a few will be pointed at the bottom. I actually think this pump may be too big for this closed loop anyways. I may have to end up downgrading.

Since you're still playing around, have you tried to reduce to say 1" then build your manifold fr there with mutiple outlets?

Yeah maybe a good Idea. I have 1" PVC already, I would just need a few reducers and T's, 90's and 45's. Might worth a shot at this point.

Well I ended up finding really nice sized 1.5" fittings for the outlets. They are all ABS stuff. The ABS is way smaller looking even in the same diameters. I also like using the transition cement for PVC and ABS for some reason! I think it will work well. Should be done tonight and I will post pics.

I'll just sit here and tap my foot

Waiting for Pics LOL

Good to see your makeing head way. Can't wait for the pics

J

Ahh, Tap your foot.... A heck of alot easier than smackin head LOL

Yeah I have been a bit slow with the pics lately. It is all coming along...WAY slower then expected but its gettin there! I really do not want to make too many mistakes. I do need to get this thing up and running though because my fish are also tapping their feet and waiting.

Easier and doesn't hurt as much!

Not a bunch of pics yet but...A few for advice. This is what Im thinking for the closed loop outlets. Would the 90 and then 45 coming off of a 2-1.5" reducer kill a lot of flow? How does this look design wise?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00575.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00577.jpg

I'm not 100% positive on this but I think you will get a slight pinching effect, but, I think you actually want this because of the multiple outlets. You want the manifold line to be slightly pressurized so that each nozzle outputs more or less the same flow as any other. Otherwise, water will just mostly go out the first nozzle and the further away each nozzle will have less and less flow.

Overall the multiple outlets will compensate for each individual outlet having a slight reduction, so it's not like you're not getting the most bang for the buck on the pump.

Yeah thats exactly what I was thinking. Each outlet will get that slight pinching effect but after thinking about it, I thought that might help, especially because the pump is fed up on the right side. I was worried that most of the flow will be just the right. I still think the right will get more flow from the closed loop BUT the return from the sump will be on the left and should even things out.

Anyways, I hope this works because I am out of ideas if not and I really like how this looks...Or really how its not very noticable. The ABS is very easy to work with and is much smaller and thinner than PVC. Already black too!

If anyone else thinks theres a problem though, can you please let me know soon because I want to cement the parts that will be cemented. I should be able to do a fresh water test of the whole system on saturday!

Looks good. But, I wouldnt rule out the possibility of having to go to even smaller nozzles. Basically, to pressurize the loop a bit, the are of all the nozzles will have to add up to less than the area of the feed pipe. You might even get good results going to 3/4" outlets?? Freshwater test will tell you, and as long as you dont cement the nozzles in, which I wouldnt anyways for cleaning purposes, you can adapt down to smaller real easily. I'd fill tank to just below nozzles and try it, if your drain/overflow will allow that. That way you can see the water coming from each pipe easily.

Yeah I can probably fill it a bit lower for the test. Im not so sure about anything lower than 1.5" nozzles though. I really don't want to reduce from 2" to something like 3/4" or I may as well have used a much smaller pump too. I think this pump at 6000 GPH can give good flow to all the outlets even at 1.5". I could be wrong though.

The nozzles will not be cemented in either because I do not want them stuck in one place. The tank is so shallow that Im sure this will give more than enough flow to the whole thing and then some.

Ahh yes, 6000GPH Somehow I missed that. I will be interested to see how she works :D Just got my top loop for the 45g done tonight. Most of the other plumbing done as well. Just need to find a reasonably priced 36" tank for my Freshwater fish, so I can steal their present tank for the sump LOL

It looks GREAT.

Like how you got the 45° set up, you're making your own Omni Flex nozzles

Close the loop to more evenly balance flow from all outlets (reference here). And you know the manifold has to be good, Holmes on Holmes pushes the manifold for houses)

Get so water in there and try it out.

Yeah your closed loop looked great! When do you figure you can have it all going by? If your like me, your getting really impatient! Well honestly, my fish are the ones getting really impatient...

Oh yeah its going to be all closed for sure. I had thought about doing half of one type thing but realized it would never work as well. I am going to cement the actually manifold tonight except of course all the outlets. I hope I can keep the outlets "uncemented", even the black reducers you see in the pics but I thought the pressure might be a bit much and eventually pop out the reducers. I guess cementing them in is ok but I like to have the option of changing still if I want.

Well, I'm hopin to have water by end of the month, better be sooner HAHAHA. We just re arranged the living room tonigth, put the tank in another corner. And then I did the smart thing and checked my finances....I'll be over in the corner here sobbing uncontrollably LMAO

I hear you about the finances! I can not really change or add much for a good long while now. Even going today to get the ABS stuff for the outlets ended up being like $50...not so bad BUT when you add up all the $50 trips, it gets a little crazy. Well over $2000 now. Im pretty excited to get some fresh water in it saturday and then if all goes well, drain it and start adding RO water maybe Monday or Tuesday. I want to get the LR in the tank by next Tuesday or Wednesday and see if there is a bit of a cycle which I expect. We will see though if that all goes as planned. Nothing really has so far!

LOL, Ya I just spent $67 on more fittings tonight too, My 3rd trip for PVC, and I think I'll have one more. Alot of stuff for a 45g, dang LOL. But, I am serious on wanting this tank, so I aint givin up :D

Yeah I think Im at about 4 trips after my initial $500 worth of plumbing delivered to my door and each were over $50. So Im guessing about close to $700 just on plumbing...Now that I think about it then, Im more like at $2500 on this tank. I also have ended up with enough plumbing to literally plumb two tanks I think. I have changed plans so much. I guess its worth having but if i had known exactly what I would need and how much from the beginning, I bet my plumbing would have been more like $400. Oh well...

Some Closed Loop and Plumbing pics. Nothing too fancy. Its all about 90% done now. Really just need to plumb the skimmer and then test it all out. I am going to start by testing the closed loop later on tonight or tomorrow morning. The closed loop does not have the 45 degree fittings on the ends of the output yet except for the one close up pic. I also threw in a few pics of my fish and gecko...he does not really like the water too much :razz:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00592.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00591.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00593.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00588.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00590.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00589.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00587.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00543.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00542.jpg

He was puffed up so HUGE but by the time I got the camera, this was all that was left of the "puffiness"...Too bad. He was about double this size and had all kinds of spikes.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00552.jpg

Our 2 year old Gecko named "Velcro". He has become such a cool gecko. He loves our cats. They have regular morning meetings in the corner of his terrarium. The cats will go to the same corner every morning and scratch on the glass, the gecko comes over and jumps on the glass right infront of them! He would be a terrible wild gecko I think, he really does not realize they probably want to eat him! Or maybe he does and is teasing them!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00556.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00554.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...h/DSC00586.jpg

Maybe my only real big regret so far is that the overflow silicone is clear and not black. Clear still of course shows up but black would have been really nice looking! Im still debating ripping it out and then redoing it black but I also want to get this thing done so...Might just have to live with it! Its all I can see though:neutral:

Nice Pics GSP. How big is your Puffer??


LMAO, wife just read this reply over my shoulder, Puffer she said, your asking another man about his puffer??? ROFL

Hahaha...I know, my fiance has mentioned something to me along the same lines once! I think I may also have been asking someone about how big their puffer was.

He is actually not too huge yet...about 8", maybe 9 max. He still has a lot of growing up to do. Hopefully he will not outgrow this tank before I can upgrade. So far he has grown about 6" in 9 months. I thought that was a bit slow but he seems very healthy and happy so Im not too worried. Actually I am hoping that hes a "runt" and stays smaller. Maybe about 13" or 14"...I can only hope though!

My eel is pretty big too...haha

I don't know which pump that photo is...but I don't see any valves on the intake or output. Stop and think about how you are going to remove/clean/replace that pump once the tank and pipes are full of water...

Also...I think you need a larger strainer on that CL intake. If you can't find a larger strainer, put a T on the intake and put two of those strainers on. As is, the amount of suction you'll have there makes that a deathtrap for lots of critters.