that really doesnt make much sense .

If my system demands

70ml CA
84 ml alk
(Which is the same as before TM balling method when you take into account the concentration adjustment.)

but only 10 ml a day of MG (aka part C)

And this is how it sits for say a few months ..

Then as per the seminar , i am not balanced . The whole point wast to add equal parts C to B , thus balancing the chloride ions etc

Infact RON99 has a very good point . If the consumption in my tank of all trace elements ( all 70 trace in part C) is not equal to the amount of part C dosed then potentially over time those elements will become over concentrated .

If the salt we choose to use is not "balanced" then how do we balance the system while continuing weekly or biweekly water changes

as long as your ca ALK and Mg is within range the rest will fall into place.

if still stuck or unsure give Lou a call he has said he will answer any call

413-367-0101

You are not balancing trace elements thats where I think the confusion lies

I'll see if I have time to do that. Can you PM me a phone number? Thanks :smile:

edit: never mind, missed the post above...

ok may call .

one last thing then.

lets just say that i need to dose no Mg . or 1 ml a day lol

basically i have no need for part C ?

so am i not basically just doing 2-part dosing again ?

Yap its gonna be just an expensive 2-part. :razz:

Ok lets not let this thread fall apart with pointless negatives, I kept this open knowing eventually the thread would implode with people trying to disprove what has been already proven.

Part C Mg is designed in a way that you will never not dose it, I am dosing 80ml a day! and my Mg is 1320. It is designed to be proportional. So NO you will not end up with an expensive 2 part as Part C is designed always be required in proportion

You need to also remember the trace elements are in very small quantities. With the Ca and Alk consumption in the tank, these trace elements are depleted through precipitation and biological processes.

Here again is Lous number he is open to calls all the time in office hours eastern time, please call him and use this service.

413-367-0101

He was asking whether it would just be a 2 part if he doesn't have to dose part C. We have had this discussion before Michael ;)

Yes it would but then thats an unbalanced system, as said so many times in this thread part C is the most important part. So part C in the system is designed so it will be required so the system stays in balance.

Exactly :biggrin:

As I have said so many times before if you do nothing else and dont use part A and Part B of TM system, it is extremely important to use part C so the free sodium chloride left behind from the coral consumption of the calcium and carbonate has something to balance to.

without part C the left over sodium and chloride will unbalance your system, the trace elements also in the system are an added benefit.

That's assuming you don't "balance" by mixing your water for a change at a slightly lower salinity to compensate for the small amount of added Na and Cl from dosing.

Perfect if you do water changes daily then!

All this work Ron just to try and disprove the need for the system? sounds like a hell of a lot of hard work to me. Why not just try it instead of trying to find constant flaws in it. You may just be surprised ;)

If anyone else is really interested in further information before buying please call Lou on

413-367-0101

or email office@tropicmarin-usa.com

Uhhh, huh. Deleted a bunch of my points I see. I'll try to call TM and I'm sure I will confirm my thoughts. Too bad you can't seem to handle the discussion and questions about the product you sell.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand there goes the door. Lol

Turning of key

Aaaaaaand.....

Ron your only point on posting on here is because you are anti commercial products you have made that very clear in earlier threads. if you want to do something similar DIY then feel free here is how

get some baking soda
get some tank kill ice melt
get some epsom salts
hope to work out how the hell to balance that and then throw in as many trace elements you feel you dont need.

As I said from the start this system is not patented nor is it rocket science its basic chemistry if you feel you can do better and cheaper (which is your whole point of posting on this thread) Go for it.

But Ron I urge you please let it go you have said your piece we get it you are anti commercial products, so Please do not post here again this thread is not for you!

I want to keep this open for people that are interested in doing balling properly this thread is NOT for you to try and find a DIY recipe to show you are the big guy that can copy it and be successful, if you do then please start your own thread and show the group your amazing results.

This is a sponsors forum for showing and highlighting the products we carry not for someone to continue to prove it can also be done DIY! that we leave for Randy Holmes and Co.

But as above please stop posting here, its not fair on those that have genuine interest. I think I have been very good and polite up to this point of quickly answering all your round and round in circle questions, but i now must apologize and bid you farewell from this thread.

Nope not fair on those that have real interest in the Tropic marin system. It will stay open ;)

Here is a great online purchase option

http://dereksreefshop.ca/categories.php?category=289

I asked.a.Q earlier and am.still wondering

If my nsw for water changes is not balanced(as we know that salt values vary) then how am I able to keep my tank balanced. I do weekly wc and could see how it may upset the balance. If one was not concerned about nutrients export than you could for go wc as balling would keep level where they should be.

Hum. I don't see them as a sponser for the site.....

Most salt mixes are balanced, yes if starting off after doing an unbalanced 2-3 part system you are slightly on a back foot and its hard to give an exact answer to this as every system is different.

What the Hans Werner system will do is in time address that imbalance in conjunction with regular water changes.

remember the imbalance does not come from the lack of minor trace elements you get from 2 or 3 part systems, the elements are a secondary benefit of the TM system, the important part is the NACL part.

Talk to lou give him a call he will give you a more scientific answer to this.

Correct but they are a dedicated member of the aqua digital supply chain and have been highlighted within our paid sponsored area as well as many others are also both sponsor and not.

We're balling

http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b88d741.jpg

Where's the like button :mrgreen:

Right here Button

Might be a good read. Published in 2008 by Dr. Balling :)

http://190.11.224.74:8080/jspui/bits...apter%2015.pdf

brilliant thanks for that.

You are welcome :D

Um balling too ;)

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/...psb83b9780.jpg

Yeah! :mrgreen: there has been a huge uptake in this which is great, looking forward to helping everyone if they need it.

So after running this for a few days,my levels are slowly dropping started slow and bumping it up every day to ensure my levels don't spike. My question is now for a reef calculator what option does a person choose that has similar characteristics as these salts.

I don't think there's any. You would have to play with it to find the right amount. It would be easy since you will most likely be dosing the same volume of all three solutions (that's why there's very specific instructions of the amounts of each powder to be mixed to 1gallon water: generally, about 2dkh of alk drop will drop the Ca by 1.5ppm in every tank and the solutions are concentrated in such a way that equal amount of each three parts will follow that ratio).

TM explained to me the importance is getting your levels balanced i.e where alk ca and Mg should be, balance alk and ca first. If your alk is too high it will buffer both your ca and mg.

once balanced then within a tolerance everything else will be equal to a degree.

ranges

alk -7 to 8
Ca - 400 - 430
MG - 1280 - 1350

I'm considering switching to this from the BRS recipe. I also plan to start using the Pro-Reef salts (Was using H2Ocean)

What I'm looking for is a conversion. I know how much I need to dose daily based on the concentrations prescribed by BRS. I imagine the Tropic Marin system is more/less concentrated. My system is already balanced and stable, it would be helpful to know so I could dial it in faster with less headache.

Also, are the Pro Coral A Elements and Pro Coral K Elements still recommended? What do these bring to the table that the system doesn't already?


Loving the products you bring to Canada. Super pumped Bayside brought this in. Keep it up!

Thanks for the positive thoughts on what we are bringing in ;)

the A and K are the trace elements that are not found in salt mixes or can not be added due to precipitation. They add the final element to the system.

In regards to conversion calculation to be honest there is not one as TM or us have no clue of what type or quality the salts they use are although based on the price I am going to guess at not above food grade.

If you have balance right now and that should be as follows

Ca around 420-430
ALK - 7-8
Mg - 1280 - 1350 (closer to 1350 is better in my oppinion)

If you are within those ranges then initially dose to the same level you are now for 48 hours and then test, from there you will know if you are needing to adjust an element up or down.

If you are not within the ranges above then manually adjust over a week to those levels. Remember the connection between ca and alk the higher the alk the harder it is to raise ca without raising your MG.

Well after the two weeks seems tank has settled at 250 ml a day of all parts.

Good result! Let us know how things roll along?

What does that equal in dollars and cents?

over 10L of make up of A and B and about 41L of part C

kit costs $59.00 for A,B,C

Can be purchase separate.

Remember also Blue Tangs tank is total water volume 540 gallon!