To me T5 only tanks look great in pictures but washed out in person. While the camera loves the uniform light distribution my eyes prefer the shadows and contrast created by other options. T5 and LED combinations offer a solution that makes sense in some ways but contradict most of the advantages I've come to appreciate with LEDs. Mixing T5s with LEDs introduces these problems to a fixture which was originally sold based on the fact they didn't have such problems. Then there's the control aspect that T5s just don't compare to. Yes you can dim T5s but it doesn't make it a good idea, dimming florescent bulbs is not the same as dimming LEDs and it never will be, if you've done this before you know.

I'd say for a budget on off style fixture a T5/LED is a decent option for those who prefer a more uniform light coverage with some added shimmer. Something more related to a direct replacement for a MH/T5 fixture with lower heat and electricity requirements. However for a higher end fixture it's not something I would recommend, a mitra looks pretty close to a 250W+T5 combo without any of the drawbacks, IMO it's looks even better.

That said this hobby is, for the most part, expensive and time consuming so do whatever you can justify and keeps you motivated. But for the love of god just do it already :razz:. If you hate LEDs then run Halides, T5s or whatever, don't cry about spending thousands on LEDs because you had to. Electricity isn't that expensive, even with chillers and typically HRV units cost less than $1000 and are easy to install in most applications. LEDs won't always solve your heat, power consumption or humidity problems, usually they just reduce it. Payback periods are long if you can even make it without changing something. So run LEDs if you like them and something else if you don't, justify your decision solely on your personal preference.

That pretty much covers it :)

And, that's a wrap. Thanks for coming out everyone. Hope everyone had a good time! Mod please close.

+1 :mrgreen:

No no, now just hold on a minute. One more thing. If you're currently using Halides or T5s (or considering ditching LEDs), consider this.... in a few years you'll more than likely have a hard time finding replacement bulbs/tubes & if you do, they'll be very costly, especially the ones specific to our hobby. There's going to be a period of time where halides & T5s are going to be dirt cheap because all the distributors will want to purge their stock. In time, LEDs will take over. You read it here first.

So after I sell my LEDs, I buy enough bulbs for the next 5 years. But honestly, T5 is hugely popular and I can't see them vanishing in the next 20 years. But I only need 5 :)

Well said. What motivates me most is getting the result that I want from a light . While I'm still a newbie to reefing, so far I like the results I'm getting from led's. I have not tried mh or t5. Yet.

mike31154;849315 in a few years you'll more than likely have a hard time finding replacement bulbs/tubes & if you do, they'll be very costly, especially the ones specific to our hobby. There's going to be a period of time where halides & T5s are going to be dirt cheap because all the distributors will want to purge their stock. In time, LEDs will take over. You read it here first.[/quote]


Well, when that time comes, I'll probably pick up a Mitras for 200 bucks

[quote=mike31154;849315].... in a few years you'll more than likely have a hard time finding replacement bulbs/tubes & if you do, they'll be very costly, especially the ones specific to our hobby. /QUOTE]

You mean like $110/bulb?

Huh. Apparently someone forgot to tell this guy

But did you see the frag tank?? :)

Haha
But, he is supplementing ...
Does that count as 'dosing', as in a 'disqualified' way ?

http://www.clipartguide.com/_named_c...part_image.jpg

I never did get swept in with the LED craze and plan to stay with my good old MH & T5 mix. :biggrin:

Lmao!

~Tony

Rich does supplement Kien... so maybe LEDs do suck? I like my sucky LED fixture but won't deny I miss some of the things so many love about halides. I only miss halides when I see yours so maybe that's my problem. Your tank just oozes awesome teehee!

I thought I recalled seeing a lot of halide bulbs being marked down and sold on various sites. There's no doubt that the selection available on the most popular sites is way down from where it used to be.

I set up my halide yesterday and forgot how crisp and clean the light is. Though I did notice that certain pieces like forest fire digi does not "pop" as with the led. So now I'm looking into some RB led to compliment the halide.
Just need. To find a way to incorporate them into fixture as the stealth dimensions are 14"x14" and would be concerned that the led be spread to far to the outside

It's not only the bulbs/tubes. MH & T5HO ballasts are going to be more difficult to find if you have a failure. If you're fortunate enough to have an old magnetic MH ballast, you may be better off since the individual components such as capacitor & coil are replaceable. These parts are not going away since they're used in other applications.

Vernon's a small city with only one pet store remaining that does salt. AJ's has been slow to move with the times in some respects, but I was in there the other day & the store is full of LED fixtures, with virtually all the T5 stuff marked down significantly. I appreciate where all the folks who love their MH & T5 tanks are coming from, but I really don't think you'll be able to continue with that technology much longer than 5 years.... so enjoy while you can!

So does anyone remember plasma? And what about that skylight in the ceiling for direct sunlight? Isn't that what our livestock really needs?

EDIT: As an example, most of you have undoubtedly heard of a small company called Icecap that manufactured high quality ballasts specific to our hobby. They've been out of business for a while now because they missed the LED boat. Granted, the big players like GE & Philips aren't going away that easy, but they're also on the LED boat full bore & it's unlikely they'll continue making bulbs/ballasts for a small niche such as the salt water aquarium hobby.

I realize that he does supplement with purple T5s to bring the red spectrum back in, but all the high end LEDs fixtures supplement by adding "full spectrum" LEDs nowadays. In theory it should be the same thing? :noidea:

full spectrum means the same thing in LED and older tech? ya think?

good example is the true hqi ballasts i spent a lot of time and money buying to properly run 250w radiums. the m80 ballast is no longer made. aquamedic had their own version they were selling but not sure they still make those either.

I dunno, I would have assumed so. If you read the LED manufacturer's literature they show a spectral graph usually. The full spectrum units tend to have the "full" spread across the spectrum. Then the user is free to play with the amount of spectrum they want to throw out by infinitely adjusting each LED. At least that was my impression of how "full spectrum" LED units worked. I say we ask Steve. He'll know.

so what kind of MH you going to go with? got the T5s for your sunrise/ sunset, now you need to pick your real light.

Steve

The people talking about MH am t5, I assume you're not referring to cheap Chinese models. eBay is swamped with those. Is there a huge difference between a Phoenix or Radium compared to a $12 dollar Chinese bulb? Same for the t5, how different can a cheap model be?

I've never owned MH an I've only seen one tank with them, an LFS that switched to fluval LED because it was cheaper than replacing a blown bulb and ballast.

There is quite a difference, but sometimes there isn't a difference, and here's why..

I tried out cheap eBay halides (14K) for a year back in 2011/2012. The bulbs were so cheap that I bought like 6 of them at once. I even went for the more expensive $30 eBays. For me that would have been two years worth of halides as I run 3x250 watts and change them yearly (typically). I discovered a few interesting things along the way. First off, when I got a good batch of bulbs, they were virtually indistinguishable from the more expensive bulbs. However, getting a good bulb proved to be the challenge. Out of 6 bulbs that I purchased from two different vendors on eBay, 1 of the bulbs only lasted a few months (like 3), before it crapped out. Another bulb appeared to be dirty (black coating on the bulb) that appeared as if it had been used previously. It had a 10K colour cast on it right out of the box even though I bought a 14K. With the 4 remaining (somewhat decent) bulbs, I discovered that they got exhausted much sooner than the typical 1 year that I got out of the more expensive bulbs. At around the 7 or 9 month mark I could tell that they had colour shifted dramatically towards the 10K. As a result, I ended up tossing the lot and going back to Phoenix bulbs. I have never had a problem with the more expensive brand name bulbs. Yes, I know, you get what you pay for. If you don't mind having to swap out the cheap eBay bulbs more often, or frequently getting a dud, then eBays are fine :-)

I think it comes down to quality control, as with anything that comes off of eBay from China. The more expensive brands tend to put more money and effort into quality control and will toss out batches that don't make the cut. The eBayers will snatch those garbaged bulbs up and sell them to you.

Seeing is believing
 

+1, but it's like anything you get what you pay for, I have AI's and there great. I've tried the cheapie ones " ah no" ! If anyone here has ever had the pleasure if seeing Riches tank you would be a believer of Led's. :first:

Ohhh kien..... Your enveloping and smooth ;)

That was just one time.. and i thought we agreed to keep it on the down low.

No, gonna try full T5. MH gives me to much humidity and rusts the lock on my front door, locking me out in the rain and then I'm not happy.
anyway, ya, power module 8 bulb fixture. Should be fun :)

:Banane30:

(didn't want to use the big one!)

And that's how you got Long's purple monster

as far as i know LED have sharp spikes (each type of LED present) in those plots and manufacturer's just connect the dots and make those pretty graphs to more closely match LED output to that of halides.

I think it's the same for everything, the equipment only measures peak output at certain spectrum then they plot best fit curves. You're right about LEDs and the narrow spectrum for colored LEDs but the white LEDs have broad spectrum curves so it's hard to say what the real curves look like vs other lights.

can't you just add smaller fixtures around your LEDs to suplement the LEDs (being serious now) would be a shame to get rid of the leds

Steve

Ah, but you are in luck sir. The M80 is a good old core & coil magnetic ballast with 3 components that should be available with a little searching. Transformer, capacitor & ignitor. Provided the ballast is not encapsulated (covered in black goo to make it water proof), the average schmoe should be able to replace any of these components diy. It's usually the capacitor that goes bad & they're dead simple to change out. You just need to be aware that it's a pretty big capacitor & when fully charged can give you a good buzz. If in doubt, a big screwdriver with an insulated handle may be used to short the two terminals & discharge the capacitor. Ignitor & transformer may be a bit more difficult to find, but just because a ballast manufacturer no longer makes the complete ballast, doesn't mean the parts to repair it can't be found. If you search HID Pocket Guide or HID Troubleshooting (Advance/Phillips), you should be able to find a pdf with all the info. Part numbers should be stamped somewhere on the capacitor & ignitor, transformer, not sure. This old school technology is actually pretty bullet proof & will go a long time.

http://www.candelacorp.com/products/...1A5880500D.pdf

I reckon even these options will go away eventually, but the fact that M80 is an ANSI specification bodes well that it will be around for a while yet.

Personally though, I'm on the LED boat & won't be changing back.

Nah, too much work. The T5 look good so far, and I'm happier than I thought I'd be. LED don't really add much other than some shimmer and ramping for sunrise/set. Ok, that's pretty cool, but something I can live without if I have to.

How do these sit over your tank?
Legs or hanging...how do you access the tank

Asking me? I don't know yet. Leaning to hanging, but I might get a rack made like Japarto uses on the display tank.

Yes sorry I should have been more specific. It's the ignitor by Advance. Las I read they're not made anymore and next to impossible to find.

Going for the hybrids or straight t5s? I've been thinking hybrids the last month...

Straight T5. Got a good deal on a unit, so that's what I have to work with.