I have heard in the past that Perun is willing to sell to Canadians, but I've never actually met someone who followed through. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I realized something concerning the rock - first off, the rock doesn't have to be labelled live. The frag could be glued to just about anything, really. Second, how are the border officials going to know it's live, if they even know what live rock is (doubtful). You can work around customs snags by how you label things. At my old job, we once had a large order of award medallions being shipped to South Carolina. The first batch was labelled "medallions" and went through without a problem. The second batch was labelled "ribbons" by mistake, and all hell broke loose, since textiles are regulated somehow, and because the country of origin of the ribbons on the medallions was some Caribbean island not falling under the normal CA/US export/import laws. But when the main product was the medallions, no problems...

like I said, lots of people do it, some dont get caught, some do, some have their house taken away and go to jail, others dont....
maslabeling things is a bad idea, they are usually pretty lax on ignorance, but outright cheating the system will see you fare badly....

This wasn't mislabelling per say, it was just an interpretation of what inside the box was more important.

I do agree that if you are truly breaking the rules, there is a chance you will have to face the repercussions. Although I'm not sure how they'd manage to seize your house? Maybe you'd have to sell to afford a lawyer...

I dont have the link so it just heresay, but very recently 2 guys doing exactly what you described got caught, and it was determined they were selling the livestock once getting across the border, I believe the fine was $250,000.00 and a jail term of 5 years, his house was seized to help pay the fine.

hehe they were doing thousand of tones of rock harvested from closed areas though :mrgreen:

Steve

Alright, like Kyle I'm in the industry so I'll help. I'm the paranoid type so I've checked things out thoroughly.

Here's how it goes.

If you cross the border into Canada as a hobbiest you won't need a f&w permit. This is needed if you are importing into the U.S. or shipping out as a commercial venture.

If its on a piece of scleractinia (live rock) it's covered under CITES II, same with acropora, or any other reef building or hard skeleton type of coral. For this you need the original copy of the CITES permit from the country of origin. You will not get this from a hobbiest or retail store in the U.S.

You can bring across zooanthids or mushrooms loose or attached to a piece of concrete. Don't bother trying to bring across any leathers or sinularia or anything on a piece of live rock.

Fish are easy, just drive across declaring you've got some tropical fish for your tank. Personally I think you're nuts to even try and cross with any type of invert.

Agree with everything DMB says except for one thing,

The cites that comes is not the orignal export cites but a Export/Re-Export Continuation Sheet under Cites issued by US Fish & Wildlife.

I'm not sure as a hobbiest how you would get this, its issued by US Fish & Wildlife Service maybe they would be a good source for you to talk to.

If your thinking about 1 or 2 pieces, its expensive but zoos on eBay were selling for $600 US.

For those on the board that have done this without a broker or someone else leading the way they will understand when I say its a steep learning curve and when you talk to Canda Customs there is 2 people in all of BC that look after this and their concern is making sure the export documents are in place.

Best of Luck, let me know if I can help.



Wendell

There is one retail (online) store I know will get the cites completed but the minimum order is a little high. Talk to Dr. Mac.

Hey Wendell,

On Dr Macs site he says they only sell within the USA. Have you ever order from him? I would think only a retailer could buy from him if the minimum order is so steep. How much is a minimum order?

Cheers,
Vic [veng68]

Wendell is right about the re-export permit. Wouldn't USFW need the original CITES export permit to issue a re-export permit? This was my thinking because anyone that isn't purchasing directly from the country of origin wouldn't have access to this original permit to show USFW.

Just a question. I'm not an American importer, but I'm interested none the less.

Probably true DMB.

As for Dr. Mac, better you pick up the phone and give him a call.


Wendell