Just after reading your last post here (I didn't read anyone's replies lol), the ethical thoughts came to mind. Do remember that most of the critters you buy are stolen out of the wild reefs. I have a hard time thinking about it sometimes, and have a hard time justifying stealing these creatures from the oceans.

One thing I forgot to mention is that you will probably need to use powerheads, and also it doesn't make sense to spend the money on a SCWD if you're trying to do it on a budget (for whatever reason).

EDIT: Ok I went back and read some of your replies:

Be aware that overdriving bulbs greatly decreases the bulb life. Over driven by 2x T8s should be replaced every 5-6 months. T5s are good for 12 months. Coralife T5 fixtures come with bulbs, and aren't expensive. There is no reasonyou need 4 T5s bulbs over your tank, so you can't even compare 4 T5s to 4 T8s. That's like comparing 500HP in a semi truck to 500HP in a car. Totally different. ONE T5 bulb would have about the same PAR as THREE T8 bulbs.

Lots of people use Vancouver tap water with success. It will be much more difficult though with few waterchanges and no skimmer.

Sorry, but I do think you are being a bit ignorant to the health of the potential animals in your care. Just taking a few simple steps would hugely increase their chances of living healthy. OR, you could do what you plan, but don't keep any fish. Keep macroalgaes, feather dusters, sponges, gorgonians, etc. Critters that LIKE nutrient rich water, and don't require large amounts of light to be happy.

Are you saying that T5 technology is three times as efficient as T8 technology?

I have to agree with Myka. My comment was not meant to be rude or crazy passionate or anything, but if you are looking for a hobby "just to see" if you can get by on the skin of your teeth and do it just for a challenge this is not it. And if you do have the means to give your critters a greater chance at living healthy then the responsibility falls on you to do so, and i dont understand why you wouldnt want to do that for them, especially if you have no experience in the hobby. as far as the catch 22 of all of us stealing from the oceans, most aquarist will agree that we learn more from giving our corals and fish the best chance they can have, and are slowly moving to a point where more fish and corals are available that are grown and bred in captivity than are not. And as Myka said if its still your choice to go forward with your plan please choose your livestock well go with animals that thrive in nutrient rich envirnments and dont require alot of light!

Take your time and find the equipment as it shows up if you can't afford everything. I've been working on a new tank for 5 months now. I've found everything locally online and easily saved hundreds.

Well Welcome to Canreef and I hope you have seen something in this hobby like everyone has seen to get them to where they are at today. I am going to give you a few pointers if you don't mind. With everyone here on this board we all have something in common that is we love this hobby. We are all trying to keep a piece of the ocean in our tanks if we can. In order to keep some of these tanks you need lots of Time, Lots of money, lots of heart and what every one has is Lots of Reading. I think that i went almost 12 months of reading before i took the plunge in to salt water. Why, Because I didn't want to make the mistakes that everyone else ran into. but you will sooner or later cutting corners or lighting ,skimming ,Rock ,Salt, All I can tell you that you need to take you take which I see that you are doing. READ, READ, READ then price out what you see yourself with. Then price out what you see yourself buying. Then price out what you see yourself getting or that you can afford.

IMO/IME I think the best times on the net is looking at what equipment is cheapest on line. And seeing how much you can get it for

But at the end of the day we can't not tell you what to buy that is your own decision. We can give you excellent idea's and point you in the right direction hoping that you are going to follow our advice. So good luck and have a great hobby if you desire to start into it. Patience, patience is the key to this hobby and finding out who is getting out of the hobby so you can get their systems with great equipment and a wicked price too.

If you go with a sandbed skip out on the playsand. Its silica based, which down the road will cause you problems.

In this hobby "as cheap as possible" = costing more. The more your try to avoid spending the more you'll spend.

As much as you'd like to JUST do this, and JUST do that it's a cosmetic hobby so JUST doing the bare minimum kinda defeats the entire purpose. Because who JUST wants to look at there tank all day when it looks like junk.

While the idea of "trying to do something just to see if it can be done" might be challenging to you, ultimately IMO this is the wrong hobby to do it in. Could you set up a cheep SW tank yes, would it be worth the effort your talking about to find cheep stuff and DYI T8 lights etc. then personally no.

Lets say you get the tank up and running the way you're setting out to do. In the long run I am certain you will have problems with algae and nutrient spikes. Then your challenge will be having to deal with these problems, are you prepared for that? If you are and you understand that you may need to upgrade some equipment to help with potential problems, then I say go for it and see what happens.

One thing I have to say though is: no skimmer = regular 10% weekly water changes. If you are against water changes and you have the money then buy a good skimmer. Although realize even with a good skimmer you will still need to do water changes (at the very least) once a month.

I don't think you need a lot of money to run a small sw tank set up if you are willing to put in the time to take care of it. If you don't have a lot of time then spend the money on a more self efficient system.

On a side note if you do get really addicted to this hobby then be forewarned of the thousands if not tens of thousands you'll end up sinking into it. I literally went from saying five years ago (to my boyfriend) that I hate the noise of fish tanks and I will never ever have one in my house. Well when he first move in I felt bad for him because he was sad about leaving his 10g fw tank behind at his parents. So I let him set it up in the living room, 3 fw tanks and two years later he said we should try sw. So we started off with a 60g and went about mid point for equipment.

Fast forward 3 years about $15-20 thousand dollars and two 230g tanks later..... Well lets just say if you do get addicted be aware of the amount you never ever would of ever dreamed of spending on salt water fish tanks. For example: This was myself when I was first starting off "What $20.00 for a fish!!!! $200.00 for lighting are you crazy!!!!" to now "$170.00 for a 8" Sohal that's not too bad" "$1500.00 for a six foot 3 250w bulb Giesemann MH light fixture, ok if that's what we need" :surprise: :eek: *sigh* Still not sure how I went from one state of mind to the other but I tell you, it definitely happens!

Sorry for the long post but I thought I'd share my opinion and experience. Thanks, Laurie