No unfortunatly no Petland around here. I tried to find some often but never managed and no one carry them around here. I could have them mail ordered but that's too expensive.

Strange that the mandarin won't eat them. Both of my green mandarins will gobble white worms like popcorn.

Did your mandarin ever tasted the black worms? Or he simply do not consider this as food and never ever tried? I am curious to see if he really dislike them or it's just that he never bothered to try it?

He tried them. He tries anything I put in his feeding dish. I should skip feeding for a day and then try feeding them to him. He's quite the pig.

Reef Pilot
 

You show your arrogance in attacking Myka. She provides lasting information to new reefers which info is permanently posted on this board. She freely offers advice in her many postings.
She is writing to help new reefers not to earn the Pulitzer Prize in Literature. Your attack is hurtful and completely uncalled for and I request that you apologise to her.

You show your ignorance by suggesting that Robert Fenner who posts on Wetwebmedia.com
and by implication other experts like Scott Michael represent dated thinking.
These fellow hobbyists who have PHds, and are accommoplished and acnowledged experts in our hobby, provide current information from on going study and ongoing lectures to fellow hobbyists like us.

If guys like these are not the experts, than who? YOU!!! lol

From time to time guys of your ilk hit the board. They ignore the advice of experts. attack fellow posters personally, and encourage fellow reefers to push things to the limit with the resultant fish and coral carnage.
Thankfully guys like you come and go because ultimately their tanks turn to a bio mass of algae and gunk and they leave the hobby.

these guys are still the best in the field today, alot of these guys can be found posting reguarily on us sites :)

Well, looks like I got your attention, Naesco. That's good. My problem with you is that you like to do these hit and runs with false or misleading information. In this case, you said, "The chances of a cleaner wrasse surviving more than a week or two are almost nil". You ignore other posters that have recent success stories with these fish, and gave some good advice on increasing the chances of being successful. You did the same to me on a past thread about Copperband Butterflies, when I spoke about my success, as did others. When I questioned your experience, it was more than 20 years ago, and you even admitted that you just plopped it into a display tank without QT, and tried to feed it flake food. Needless to say, that Copperband didn't have a chance.

In this case, the OP had already heard that Cleaner Wrasse may be a difficult fish to keep in captivity, and was looking for other peoples thoughts. A number of people posted to provide helpful hints that might increase his chances of success. I don't think your first post with the above statement is what the OP was looking for. If you had just given the links as in your 2nd post, and perhaps offered some suggestions, that might have been taken more positively.

As for Myka, I hope I didn't offend her, and for sure, I apologize if she was. Most of our discussion focused on the contrast between you and Daniella, who has a lot of direct experience with keeping difficult fish and corals. Instead of just slapping people (which she can do, too), she is continuously offering good advice (often new and unique), and trying to be helpful. You could take some lessons from her, and probably learn a lot too, about some of these difficult fish.

Just trying to give you some advice here, Naesco, to perhaps improve your image and credibility, so that your point isn't always lost because of how you post and put people off. Blatant, over the top statements like the one above do not help your cause at all.

As for me, I have my own soapbox I get up on from time to time. I try not to overdo it, as I know I will just be ignored then. And that is QT. I think we have more "carnage" in this hobby because of Ich and other diseases, than just "difficult fish" dying. I also get a little upset when I hear some people on this forum advocate against QT, and "just feed garlic". Then I read about the disasters every couple months in people's tanks.

So if we do have anything in common, Naesco, it is to try and promote responsible behavior with reef keeping. That includes sharing knowledge and trying to help others through their challenges. I know you have been in the hobby a long time, so am sure you have lots to contribute as well.

Thank you for your comments

You're welcome, and hope there are no hard feelings, or at least they will soon be forgotten.

:popcorn:

Good job settling it out guys. :)

you guys are funny.

In defense of Nesco, I've never met a reefer with such passion for fish and corals. He even went to Indonesia himself to hand-pick 200 lbs of live rock and shipped them back here. ( i know, cause I bought all the rock from him 3 years ago when he had to shut down his display because of a move)

We are all still learning, there's always new things and procedures popping up. In the old days, we kept sw fish with just airstone skimmers and wet/dry filters. ( that still works LOL ) but new tech and techniques are helping change this hobby by leaps and bounds. Heck, 20 years ago, we never even heard of chalices, and other deep water corals.

Heck, I just learned how to post pics ( not very well mind you)

That was a pleasant surprise. Thanks guys!

I would like to know the percentage of people that have successfully kept these fish......its already been said that only the people that have been successful with these fish post in threads like this, which unfortunately give the wrong impression to the many people that read the thread......personally Ive killed two cleaner wrasses and wont try another.....there are some fish IMHO that really should either be left in the ocean or at the very least be a "special order only" fish, brought in for people who know what they are doing.....the reality is people on forums like this make up a small percentage of the total number of people who have a saltwater tank and I would be willing to bet that less than ten percent of these fish live longer then a year.....

Actually there are 2 types of posts in these forums....those who post and had succes and thus give the impression that this fish is easy to keep...

AND...those who tried and failed and post in these forums and give the impression or say so, that these fish are impossible to keep.

So who really give the false impression? I guess everybody does because some cleaner wrasse are extremely easy to keep, and some won't make it no matter what.

As for me, I know quite many people who have success with it...we must be really lucky. It's also so cheap to buy at the pet store...that does not help.

Cleaner Wrasse
 

I have one in each of my 2 tanks. The cleaner in the 25 gal is 3 years old to me don`t know how old it was before we bought it but was just new to the store still in QT when my wife put it on hold. And the other is a little over a year in the 77 gal. tank. These are not a easy fish to keep! I was lucky to convert both to frozen food with a bit of work but both fish started with beef heart and now are on fish food home made and bought they even eat flake food.

I do not recommend this fish to anybody that has not done alot of research and are dedicated to the work involved to introducing this type of fish to there tank. I lost one because he was in the store for 2 weeks before I bought it so that was the first lesson he was gone with in 2 days of purchase.

Well, it's taken me about an hour to read and decipher all of these posts. I'm not 100% sure on what feelings and opinion I walk away with here. I guess in the general reefing community I am a noob, only 1.5 years in, and yes, I was lured to this fish by a large chain fish store like many others. It's great to see such passion and involvement of members in these communities, but at the same time I find it quite striking that a moral debate would ensue about keeping this fish, or any for that matter. There's some great advice here and i will do whats best in my ability to keep all my "pets" alive. I became a reefer because for some reason I can sit and watch my tank in wonder for hours. I can't explain it. Fascination maybe, of both nature and mankind's ability to nurture nature in a controlled environment. Cool, but I had a dog once, who ate very well, was well groomed and loved. He died of cancer long before his time. How is reefing any different than owning a dog. You raise it, care for it because it provides some peace and enjoyment in your life, but in the end, we're not masters of this universe. Thank you to all who posted feeding and care guidelines that have worked for you. I will be glad to try anything to keep my little guy happy and healthy. I sure hope I didn't start WWIII amongst some of you. I respect you all for taking the time to address my issue. I actually don't feel bad anymore, just more driven to have happy healthy fish!

ATTA boy...I found my info out side of canreef as well as what was offer here. It`s not as bomb and glomb as some say. I have to feed my cleaners twice a day because I have other fish that pick at the rocks all day as well as the cleaner.
As you have red in these forms there is success with these fish just as I say get a new fish to the store not one that maybe starving because the LFS has cheaper budget for food than you will have and time which they sometimes don`t have the time to for each fish. Time and patients is key.
Try beef heart minced with garlic to start and then introduce frozen. This worked for both my cleaners. Good luck it can be done