Want a link to the video so you can see it again ? ... after you went on and on that he did not push his face into the ice I thought a replay might jog the memory

http://www.9news.com/includes/builda...usa/dotcom.wmv

I know Bertuzzi is everyone's public enemy #1 right now and that the post started with a comment that a family almost lost a son. But don't forget, some children almost lost their dad when Naslund was taken out with a harder hit to the head. No one wants to talk about that so called clean hit. What makes it clean anyways? Is it because its a hard shoulder that made contact instead of a gloved hand? Do you mean that if you try to knock someone out with your shoulder, then its not considered intentional even though you intended to injure that person? Do you mean that when someone goes to hit someone else in the head at full speed, they have no intent to injure whatsoever? Does this not make any sense to anyone else but me? :razz:

Although I would not like to be hit at all :smile: , I would rather take a sucker punch to my head with a gloved hand by someone who is skating in the same direction as me rather than an unexpected hard swing to my head with a hard stick (McSorley) or an unexpected hard shoulder to my head at 50mph (Moore on Naslund, 25mph in opposite directions) or an unexpected hard stick across my face at 50mph (Suter on Kariya, skating in opposite directions with additional velocity from the crosscheck). In each of those cases, not only would I be in more pain (and possibly kill me as I'm a small guy :smile: ), they were absolutely senseless. In Bert's case, he would not have done it in his regular game. As Underworld mention, this action was in retaliation for the abuse of his friend and he tried to dish out some justice. It may not right to take your own justice, but this sets it apart (although only slightly) from the other acts of goonery as he was only trying to do the honorable thing (retaliate against those who've dishonoured, abused, or injured members of your family)

I do agree that hockey is a violent sport and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a negative impact in some parts of society. I'm not trying to stir up the hornet's nest but I'm just trying to put some perspective for those who think Bertuzzi's act is the worst in history.

Thanks for the link. I didn't watch the game but when I first saw the video after hearing about it, I was wondering what people were talking about when they said he was putting all his weight on the guy's head. The video isn't really conclusive. If I was going to put my weight on someone's head, I would lean towards the head. It seems more like all his weight was on the guy's back.

I agree with SamW too, also as said Bertuzi's actions resulted in something bad and he is being punished for it, it is far from the wost thing that has happened in hockey, it is something that happens all the time and the result was worse in this case even though much harder hits have caused much less damage, they both got a bad break... if I was in his position I would have done things differently, I wouldnt have leveled Moore untill he turned and faced me....- he deserved to be leveled in my eyes because it is my opinion that Moore's hit on Naslund was as cheap as the come. with speed, and hard to the head.

by deserving to be leveled I dont mean that he deserved what happened, I mean he deserved to get punched in the face for his cheap hit

Funny, in Vancouver we saw that same play from the other side, which was a closer shot and didn't look so bad. I guess the colorado news channel wants a nastier looking clip to get better ratings.

But, even watching that clip, I dont see bertuzzi ramming moore's head into the ice. I do see bertuzzi going down on top of him.

Did you see the game and catch the other clip from the other angle? You might see what I saw then.

Regardless, we are all arguing over stupidity - everyone here is agreeing bertuzzi was at fault and should have never thrown that punch.

Buck_n_neer > Definately looks like there was a downward push on Bertuzzi's part to me

I called him Gutless for the way he Bertuzzi handled the situation. a Big guy like that has to take the cheapest shot possible. Moore is not a stupid guy.. WHy fight someone bigger than you?!? Moore had already fought Cook after the Naslund incidient. That should of been the end of it right then and there, but NO Bertuzzi had to get into it later on. There is a hidden rule in Hockey, fights are sort of agreed on between the 2 people involve, if you dont want to fight you skake away, Moore did that, and that inferiated Bertuzzi who obviously took acception and hye boiled over.. (Maybe he's taking stereoids and that is why he has anger problems <GRIN>)

There was a bounty, it was said, there were clips from Vancouver players (bertuzzi, May, and the inferiated Crawford) saying all sorts of trash, and that they would get even

True there is roughness in the game, thats part of Hockey, always has been there. There are certain things that the police should be involved in, and thats where there is a deliberate attempt to injure another player. Body checking defaintely not that is what hockey is about. Hell look at football, rugby its the same thing, lots of body contact, its part of the game

As for the star players, a hit is a hit, there should be no "SPECIAL" rules for anyone, that rule is a "Gretzky" rule. that came into play because Wayne always complained about being touched. You take a look at any video clips befire Wayne was in the league and see how rought and tough was.

Samw => Justice? for what a Legal fair open ice hit? Naslund new he was caught with his head down and tried to avoid the hit, and got coldcocked, is that moores fault? No H had lined Naslund up for a hit. Its much like when Gauthier went knee on knee with a vancouver player, the guy ned he was going to get nailed and tried to move at the last minute and got injured. Injuries usually occur if the person tries to avoid the hit than actually taking the hit. Trust me I used to play hockey I know how it works and have seen it time and time again.



LostMind --> Well the shoe could be on the other foot. You say that the Avs showed the worst part of the hit. Maybe the media in Vancouver showed from a bad angle to minimize the actual facts. Some come off it I have seen the play from all angels and no matter how you slice it Bertuzzi was gutluss in sucker punching a defencless player who had no idea what was about to happen.

Couldn't disagree more. He knew exactly why Betuzzi was hauling on his shirt like a 2 year old wanting an ice cream. Yes he was trying to avoid an altercation, but he certainly wasn't unawares as to the intent of Beruzzi. I am not saying it was right by any stretch, but lets not make him into Mother Theresa here.

Exactly my point.

Its Hockey, it doesn't matter if you like the violence inherit in it or not; the fact is that it is there. Can you take this incident and use it to complain about the system? Sure, but you cant blame him for acting within the system that he is accustomed to. He sees cheap hits all the time in this game, was in fact retaliating for one. Did he intend to cause him harm? YOU BET! Did he intend to injure him to the extent that he did? I personally don't think so.He is at the hight of his career, why would he throw it all away on a cheap shot.

He thought he would maybe convince the guy to take the gloves off, and at worst take a game suspension for a not so clean hit, if the three blind men even noticed his little dig.

He wanted a fight. I don't know about you all, but when I am digging for a fight and someone refuses, it just fuels me on even more.

It was an unclean hit with an unfortunate result. They are using him as an example to prevent and perhaps put a stop to this sort of garbage in the game. It isn't entirely right that the punishment is so stiff, but they have to start somewhere. I would expect people to be even more outraged if this sort of dirty hockey continues and goes unchecked.

Sorry, I saw the replay during the game from the other angle. The networks involved had no time to edit it to make it look better or worse.

Again, as I said, its retarded to argue about this as we are all agreeing that Bertuzzi shouldn't have thrown that punch.

Just some of you are crying out that Bertuzzi should be dragged out back and shot. All I am saying is the way the game is played, ref'ed and run needs to be reviewed and adjusted. I also think Bertuzzi got what he deserved.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...NStory/Sports/

As the NHL's image plunged to an all-time low, a USA Today sports columnist wished the league would just go away.
"It is a cartoon sport with a cult following that cheers from the fringe of relevance," Ian O'Connor wrote.

"Who among us would notice if, this autumn, we found ourselves surveying a sports landscape without major league hockey?" asked Christine Brennan, another USA Today columnist. "And how many of us would complain?"

Canadian broadcaster Don Chevrier was asked about the reaction in Florida, where he lives.

"The reaction here is one word," he said. "Disgust.

"It's really sad," continued Chevrier, who called hockey games for years. "I've lost all respect for the game."

Olympic producer Ralph Mellanby, who was the head of Hockey Night in Canada for 20 years and whose son Scott plays for the St. Louis Blues, lives in Atlanta.

He blames "Neanderthals" in the NHL's front office for the Bertuzzi incident, citing the league's leniency toward violent infractions and failure to punish players and coaches who make threats.

"It's the greatest game in the world being destroyed by the people who run it," Mellanby said. "There's no fighting in college hockey, no fighting at the world tournaments or the Olympics, and nobody misses it. But these cement heads at the NHL don't get it." Unless the game changes, Mellanby said, the NHL is doomed in the United States to permanent third-class status.

"Down here, hockey is on a par with pro wrestling and roller derby," he said. "Stuff like that."

No argument from Bernie Lincicome, a columnist with the Rocky Mountain News in Denver.

"This is what hockey wants to be," he wrote this week. "This is why hockey is a boutique sport, like cockfighting and bear baiting."

Yes McSoreley was found guilty of Assaulting Brashear, and thus would have an assault charge on his record.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...ey_assault_ap/

AJ, the reason why the league doesn't go away is probably because (as sad as this may seem) the demand for this product is high. These guys are paid tens of millions of dollars from the pockets of the fans. Comparing it with pro wrestling and roller derby is way off base if the point they are making is uncontrolled violence. In pro wrestling, the conflict and violence is staged and the combants don't try to intentionally hurt each other. What I mean to say is that wrestling is tame compared to hockey. Hockey is closer to Ultimate Fighting.

Hockey has undeniable appeal as a skill sport, and fans just happen to like boxing and wrestling as well. Our fault.

Bring back the Oilers-style hockey of the 80's and watch popularity skyrocket, and not just in our own little showcase.

Not being nostalgic for nostalgia's sake here, just acknowledging that the game has something to offer, something that Don Cherry seems to have difficulty connecting with.

It's a great game when its not goony, and clutchy, and chippy...

So here is a solution ... do away with the center line and insert automatic icing and ban fighting ... this would be with the skill of these players a unbelievable sport to watch ... even bring back the glowing puck for the americans so they can follow the game :razz:

PS ... face guards should be mandatory

would this whole stupid mess even be discussed if moore was not seriously hurt?

next time you watch a game, count the number of guys who get popped in the back of the head, or face washed from behind, speared, or ride a butt end down the boards

crosschecking is getting to be a legal way of clearing offensive players out of the slot

big as he is i think bertuzzi got in a lucky shot that knocked moore out leading to a face plant and pile on that just added to the injuries

if the league was serious about improving the game they wouldn't tease us every year about cracking down on stick work

imo the suter-kariya and hunter-turgeon were worse

and how would this stop goons?

Steve

It wouldnt, it would just make the game faster paced and more exciting for the fan.

AJ's post from the globe echoes what I have been saying.

Sure, bertuzzi is to blame for throwing the punch, but the game itself needs to be revamped because the people running the game have allowed the game to turn into what it is now.

Perhaps those professional writers put the thought into words more effectively then I did :biggrin:

ya but it would lend its self to a lot of goal sucking.. I like the two line pass rule and I think to preserve it you need to keep the center line. if you look at the Oilers in the 80's they were a very fast paced game.

I do like the step there going next year by moving the net forward again and not letting the goalie play the puck. I think the golies playing the puck is being used way to much because they are untouchable and it realy slows down the game.

Steve

Well the trap took care of that the high flying teams of the 80's did'nt it ? :rolleyes: ... and wtf is goal sucking ? ... if it means a higher scoring and more exciting game where skill players are allowed to showcase their talents instead of resorting to being " goons " then I am all for it ... if Bertuzzi had to think twice as to the consequences of his actions he would not be in the situation he is in right now and the league would be the better for it

WHOO! You do agree with me! :)

Well I have to say one thing.. LACROSSE, that game has alot of Stick work. Again I played this game as well <grin> it is alot more rough than hockey will ever be.


Jim

my 2 cents worth ...... the Bertuzzi incident, like so many others, is an extension of what happens in the league everyday. Situations like this one are fostered, or at the least tacitly allowed because of the belief that it garners ratings. The Slapshot crowd in the states loves to see barely restrained violence. The problem is sooner or later someone loses control and someone gets seriously hurt. That Bertuzzi did not intend to hurt Moore this bad is not the issue. The league needs to stop all extracurricular stuff by punishing it severely and immediately. Hockey is an art form when played properly. When it is played like it is now ... it merely disgusts me. I like Todd Bertuzzi, he plays with heart; emotion and passion make him a star. Unfortunately he does not know how to control his emotions. In a game that is played at high speed, in close quarters with high emotions, control is vital. Suspending him as long as the league did was necessary. It does not hurt Vancouver sports fans as someone suggested .. because, it has no place in the game. How would the league look if Bertuzzi played a pivotal role in the playoffs, perhaps in a Vancouver/Colorado series? This crap has to stop, along with all the stick work, fighting, and cheap shots that happen everyday and don't result in injuries or media coverage like this one did.

it means you are going to have people hanging out at the opposing teams blue line waiting for a pass from his own red line so he can have a breakaway. because of this you will see defense start to stay back to wards there own end instead of playing in the opposing teams end zone. didn't you ever play street hockey man and you call yourself an Albertian :mrgreen:

seriously though the two line pass rule was made to prevent exactly what I described.

Steve

cherry-pickin...

:rolleyes:

:razz: