When I lived in Powell River (1997-2001), BC Hydro was already doing time-of-use billing.

Don't fool yourself. If they think they can generate more $$ with t-o-u billing, they will. These types of promises mean NOTHING!!!! Remember, NO HST? They just have to convince the government that it will generate more $$ that can then be added to the provincial budget and viola, Time-of-Use billing for everyone!

We're already getting screwed by the lower rate/higher rate system because unless you're a single person without reef tanks, there is almost no way to avoid being mostly billed at the higher rate. It's even worse for us since we share the Hydro bill with the people upstairs and so that lower limit is reached very fast with two households using it up, and then everything else is billed at the higher rate.

Personally, I'm not too worked about the wi-fi signal. It's the open door to T-O-U billing that scares me. I KNOW its just something they don't want people to think about but its in the works. Guaranteed. If they already find it worthwhile to do it in a tiny community like Powell River for well over a decade, how the BC Hydro execs must be drooling at imposing the same billing policy on the rest of us poor saps. And then you'll really be seeing a lot of reef tanks going on sale as people can no longer afford their electric bills.

A 20-30% jump will be a tipping point for a lot of reefers (if not the reefers themselves, then their non-reefing spouses).

OK, enough of an essay. Didn't want to join the debate till I saw what everyone is worried about over smart meters.

Anthony

There is no free lunch
 

We have A/C for our house, and the biggest draw on that is in the evening in the summer. The back (kitchen and family room, and master bedroom upstairs) faces the northwest, so worst possible scenario if they bring this in. However, if we can see our electricity draw over a day, or better yet in real time, on our computers, then we still have a chance to manage it, and minimize those costs. Our house is fairly large, so retains its heat (and coolness) for quite some time. Maybe we can cool it a few degrees extra, just before the higher cost time kicks in.

We also have a hot tub that runs all winter, and we could set a timer to shut that off at peak times (unless we are using it).

In the end we all have to pay for whatever BC Hydro costs are (since they aren't allow to make a profit). So if this allows them to lower their costs, and reduce the amounts of electricity they have to buy at peak times from Alberta (yes, BC is a net importer of electricity), then I am all for it.

Careful not to confuse time of day billing with tiered use billing. Not sure how long ago it was implemented here, but BC Hydro has been billing us on a two tier system for a while now. Rounding numbers up to the nearest cent, they charge me 7 cents per kW.h for the first 1376 kW.h. If I use more than that during the billing period, step 2 kicks in at 10 cents kW.h. So far I haven't reached step 2 during any billing period to date. This type of billing provides users some incentive to not waste energy, since it's to your advantage to try & stay within the step 1 bracket.

The City of Vernon has started the same billing method for water use, with Tiers A, B & C. Needless to say, once you hit Tier C with water use, things get a little pricey per M3. There won't be quite as many lush green lawns in the Vernon area in the years to come. Not necessarily a bad thing, since the Okanagan is an arid place in the summer & water is a precious resource in these parts.

As far as power rates go, we're fortunate in BC to have some of the lowest rates anywhere. We're spoiled & it's easy to get up in arms about potential rate hikes. I think what I'm trying to point out here is that regardless of smart meters, there are plenty of ways for the government & utilities to squeeze the $$$ out of the taxpayer & user, smart meters themselves are not going to change that fact. Best thing to do is take advantage of the functions the smart meter makes available to you the user in order to monitor usage & in the end, cost of what you use.

I'm not confused. Tiered billing is happening in the Lower Mainland. Time-of-use billing is being used in Powell River. I understand the difference.

I have no beef with Tiered billing if it was fairly applied. In our case, they should double our Tier 1 allotment since we have two households on one bill. They don't. That means we have most of our electrical usage billed at Tier 2 since two families are using the same meter.

There's lots of systems that automatically do that. In Europe they pay $0.35kW/h and up, it is very common there to have appliances with delayed starts, like washer/dryer/dishwasher. They also have electric water heaters that will let the water cool off a few degrees during peak pay periods, same with furnaces, fridges, etc. Over here it would probably cost more to implement those things than you would save, but there are options for it.

Well, by the time they bring this in here (will be a tough political battle first), maybe I will have a honking large controller for my reef stuff that I can also use to run my house.:biggrin:

I wish! I still have lots of magpies and crows hanging around that don't seem to mind. Maybe when I get my lawn installed in the summer it will keep the weeds away!

There is no political battle....they want to ...they do. There is no law or legislation needed to add a smart meter and TOU billing. Most people wont make too much noise ...if you do you may delay the inevitable....but it is inevitable.

Hah,... You don't know BC. The media will team up with Vanderzalm, and they can stop (or reverse) anything here...., just to prove they are really in charge. It doesn't matter if it is good or bad for us.

no...all im saying is its the future. Electricity production doesnt happen instantly on demand. TOU makes sense and every electicity meter in the world will be TOU smart meter eventual....that and its green. So stick your heels in all you want but eventually you will have no choice.

according to the hydro site:

BC Hydro will not be implementing time-of-use rates because we don't need them.

Time-of-use rates are used in jurisdictions with peak demand that exceeds the utility's ability to supply electricity to its customers. They have to buy expensive electricity in order to meet that peak demand. This is very important in jurisdictions that rely on coal or fossil fuels to generate electricity.

In British Columbia, we are fortunate to have a flexible electricity system that is 94 per cent hydro generation, where water flow can be adjusted to match supply and demand as needed. We are also addressing future capacity constraints through expansions to existing infrastructure, such as Mica 5 and 6 and our Integrated Resources Plan.



This is very true, in most places, electricity production doesn't happen instantly on demand, in BC, it does.

I didnt realize so much of your electricity was true hydro generation. Maybe your right. I wonder if they would ever have a different rate for different seasons were water flow might cause problems?

I think all provinces and states have bordering grid connections where they can pick up or sell off electricity depending on capacities. IF the electricity is there....why waste it.

Most places need to utilize always on technologies like nuclear, hydro and than comes coal, gas which can be better controlled. But as we move to even more unreliable and intermittent technologies which are the green solar panels and wind turbines.....TOU becomes important.

Anyway....smart meters are used for much more than just TOU.

Yeah, BC's pretty lucky with that. Most places do have thermal as their main supply, which cannot follow load well, takes time/money to shut down, etc. BC's lucky since we can supply places like that at peak times when prices are high. Then during the night, buy back electricity at a very cheap rate while we store water behind our dams to sell back again at peak times.

Honestly, i think BC will eventually go to TOU as it becomes more common , it's many years away though. Through the 90's/2000's BCHydro put a lot of money into conservation(remember that lightbulb bee thing? lol), which they claim has paid off in reduced peak demand. TOU would be a large way to reduce peak demand, and with smart meters, would cost very little to implement.

Look at this http://www.hydro.mb.ca/regulatory_affairs/energy_rates/electricity/utility_rate_comp.shtml .

We are happily enjoying the lowest electricity price in canada. Now BCHydro is step by step building ground toward TOU. If we copy ON's pricing system, we will be bloodsucked to dead since BC has the lowest income in the coutry.

The city of New Wesminster said no thanks to smart meters. HHHMMMM.

ya, you already said that 2 days ago. cwatkins told you why

:lol:

Ok so I was home when they came calling and I said they could not install the smart meters on either of my two meters untill I have more information. (you have to be home to tell them leaving a note doesn't work)

my issue isn't the rf, but some other concerns that have been brought up in the US and here.

there are several California cites now that are removing smart meters and the list is growing larger as time goes on. there are 4 cites in BC that have brought in a moratorium on smart meters.

what are my issues, I'll tell you.

the first is simple money. BC hydro is spending how much on this program? I'll tell you that they claim 1.6 billion. why would a company invest that much if it isn't going to give them a return. they wouldn't and if they don't go to time of day billing then they would never recover any of that money. they would have made more staying with the old meters.

so yes you are going to be paying more for hydro, they just haven't told you yet. anyone in a hot part of BC will be screwed, guess what.. you AC is the biggest electrical use and it runs mostly during prime time.

we have had a step rate for a few years now and what did BC hydro do 1 year after they got permission to institute stepped rates, they raised it. the first year we saved 10 bucks a month, the second we ended up paying an average of 10 more.. so it was a bait and switch.

so even though BC hydro isn't talking about time of day billing right now you can be assured as soon as the smart meter program is finished they will.

and yes crown cooperations can make money, the profit goes into the government coffers and they say they are using it to keep our taxes down.. or so they can keep spending more with out us complaining about increases in taxes.

so enough about money, my second biggest reason (and the reason for cites in the US removing them) is the invasion of privacy, smart meters can be hacked, and people in the US have hacked them to decrease there bills or the latest one would be thieves have been using hacks to learn traffic patterens of houses they intend to rob, this way they don't have to sit outside and watch. they can stalk multiple houses at once from there home and just pull up when they house is empty. and because the smart meters set up a network from meter to meter they can be across town and do this.

and finally my biggest reason, anyone ever thought about how many unionized workers are going to be put out of work when this is done.
right from BC hydro, we are unsure of how many of the remaining 300 meter readers will be affected by this program. so instead of coming out and saying all, because face it there are no meters to read as they will all be reporting through the network they create, they just say we are unsure, and say it will create jobs....

the simple fact is the government wants more money to spend and is looking for other ways to increase there pots with out direct tax raises, so they go about it indirectly.. by getting crown corp's to raise rates, or add user fees (ferries and fuel sir taxes) ect...

sorry about the rant but I am just getting tired of creative taxing, and the gov ramming there agendas down out throats using companies that the public owners. look at gov contracts they are on a zero mandate again this year, but yet they increase cpp, UI, and pension contributions while giving a worker a raise of 0 and wonder why people are getting deeper in debt. BC ferries is another one, they have made money every year but yet they still need to raise rates.

Steve

Maybe this is the real reason some are against these smart meters. The rest is just a smokescreen....

naa most people don't even think about it as they never see these workers, and come on, our government keeps telling us how many jobs there creating to stimulate the economy...

I think 99% of the people that don't want it are because there has been no real information on it, and its getting rammed down our throat just like the HST did. all I know is even if there is a moratorium on them getting them taken out is going to be a lot harder then installing them, so my theory is I'll wait to the last minuet to get them, and only when I have to.

as far as the RF emissions go, I know that one doesn't radiate very much , but they do form a network with each other and there are higher power nodes for collecting.. so when you add all that up you are getting a blanket of RF. have there been studies on cumulative effects? I do know a large enough dose can cause burns, so what can a low dose do over 20 years? I don't know, but I would like to.....

Steve

actually the number of communities in BC that have signed moratoriums on smart meter installations is at 30 now.

Steve

That's good to know. The numbers we have seen are $3.9 billion, just in BC. for this. As for RF, they say this blanket effect will becrease bee and bird populations. Sad especially when we have 2 huge ornamental cherry trees and gardens which gets blanketed with birds and bees every year.

Well, if you really believe that, I guess there's not much anyone could say to change your mind.

too bad it doesnt decrease the mosquito population :(

LOL:lol:

At least the mosquitoes only take little bites out of you.
Governments take BIG bites.

Since this thread refuses to die an honourable death & I coincidentally just received my latest BC Hydro Bill...... I'll keep it alive just a tad longer (as if someone else wouldn't at some point or another).

It appears the well compensated union person that read my good old analog meter on Feb 02 has made an error. I sure hope he/she has, since I almost fell off my chair when I read the bottom line! It was close to 3 times higher than normal. Due to the apparent error I've exceeded the Step 1 billing threshold of 1308kW.h @ $0.06670/kW.h by a significant margin & have the priviledge of being billed Step 2 to the tune of 1733kW.h @ $0.09620/kW.h. A fair chunk of change when it's a surprise like this.

While this type of error is a rare occurrence (first time for me in fact), it did happen & I'm now faced with contacting BC Hydro, requesting another reading to confirm the numbers & waiting to see what happens next. I'll be interested in finding out whether they pay the meter reader overtime or whatever to take another reading or whether they trust me to read it. According to this bill I consumed 3041 kW.h from Dec to Feb. Meter is read every two months and billing is on the same schedule of every two months. My average consumption is around 1000 kW.h for a 2 month period, with slight variations according to season.

I went out & did the best to read the meter correctly today & have come up with usage of around 1100 kW.h for the Dec to Feb period. The meters can be a bit tricky to read, but I'm pretty sure I got it right. The error may have been made since my meter is only a 4 dial (some have 5) & it appears to have clocked over from 9999 to 10000. Since there's no 5 th dial, that means it essentially starts at 0 again, much like a car odometer that clocks over. Whoever reads the meter has to figure that out somehow & I can see it being a bit confusing since the meter has dials with pointers, not a digital display like an odometer or some of the newer digital meters. If the pointer is between two numbers, the reader is supposed to record the lower one, except in the case of 9 & 0, where the 0 is actually a 10. Follow?

Anyhow, I contacted BC Hydro through their web page & we'll see what happens. Might phone them tomorrow as well. In my note to them, I also asked when I can expect my smart meter to be installed. Take what you will from this post, but I'm actually looking forward to having a smart meter more than ever.

Actually that reminds me also, how they always seem to estimate high when they don't do an actual meter read. And especially at year end, when they are often way off on mine. Almost seems like they do it deliberately to maximize their revenue at opportune times. Maybe helps someone get a bonus,... who knows.

They won't be able to do that anymore with Smart Meters, and the billing should be more accurate.

Your step 2 is 9.6 cents? Bahhhhaha I didn't know what my step 2 is and I hope to not find out as I pay over 15 cents as a base this month.

Ha, ha, yeah. It's been mentioned more than once in this thread that we're spoiled in BC as far as hydro rates go. Check the link in post #54. It's a great comparison snap shot of rates across the country. Normally the standing joke for BC is "Bring Cash", so why shouldn't we get a break on one of the little necessities in life? Probably wouldn't be running a marine tank if I was living elsewhere. Other good choices are Manitoba & Quebec if you're looking for the lowest rates.

good luck getting those BC view & weather in Quebec or Manitoba ~

Being in Ontario, I remembered the first bill I got after smart meter was crazy like $1200 (from ~ $600), scared the hell out of me.

This won't matter anymore with smart meters, but... if you contact BC Hydro, they can flag your account to be sent out the meter reading schedule at the beginning of every year. Then the day before each reading, you can go out and read your own meter, call in the reading (I think it's an automated prompt), and it'll update your account with your meter reading. Now this won't prevent the union guy from reading it wrong, but it will keep your account properly updated and avoid estimates.