well its my opinion and so really you cant question my opinion if it was a fact yes jump all over it. may be its the thing that I spend crazy amounts of money there so may be that is why he is alright to me.. well on these boards its hard to tell when someone is either voicing a opinion , stating a fact or just being a AIR head.

other thing that gets me on this was if he had actually gotten that permit, which I'm sure they do give, we all would just continuing happily buying the product.

In other words, we're all okay with the raping and pillaging the environment as long as the paper work is in order???

I met Jason a number of times...first, when he wildly overcharged me to re-silicon a leaking hex (I did not know any better at the time, it was the first tank I had that needed silicon repair), and had to re-do it twice (and I still had to go in and fix some spots!). Then, I used to drop into SWC to browse-- until I looked at prices and found they were way out of whack (high). I bought a couple of corals (not endangered, I never buy endangered, I research them first) and stopped buying when the corals I got from him would die, and similar corals I got from other shops (cheaper) to replace them flourished. I was glad I'd quit buying from him when I heard about the problem in 2007.
As soon as he realized I was not going to be spending a fortune in his shop, he became terse, even rude when I went in. I observed he was very charming, though, when he had a sucker on the hook who was happy to overspend ridiculous amounts of money for creatures (like the large clams) that would not survive in their tanks (I would overhear discussions about lighting-- he would be selling clams to people with T5HO lighting).
The last purchase I made was many, many months ago, meds I couldn't find anywhere else. As always, he was rude.
And a note of clarification: he did not simply import without proper permits. He imported huge amount of rock and species for which you cannot GET permits because they are endangered.
As for why he would do this? Money, money, money. This stuff sells for a LOT on the black market.

He imported endangered species for which you cannot get permits. The permit system is designed to prevent people from importing such species. If the paperwork is in order, the species is not endangered or threatened.

Moot point.... YOU CANNOT GET PERMITS FOR WHAT HE BROUGHT IN.

We all keep fish in glass boxes but I for one do not keep any endangered species. I think that by keeping fish as we do, we raise awareness and knowledge of these wonderful animals and by doing so we help to maintain these animals in the wild.

By rationalizing what he did we support the unscrupulous people who are willing to destroy the environment to line his pockets.

I agree 100 percent, hypocrisy runs rampant in this hobby and it really makes me want to puke...I don't care how well you provide for your little fishies bottom line is the vast majority and in most cases ALL of our tanks live contents come from the wild. How can any tank owner trash talk the hobby knowing this? You have no idea what took place or how they were handled when the creatures of your tank were collected.

This is a cut and paste from the news article, what are you talking about?

"The rare type of rock is protected because it contains coral. It can only be imported or exported if an international permit is obtained, which wasn’t done here."

It sounds like it was obtainable but he didn't get one

We have two people from Winnipeg with less than 100 posts between them on here crucifying a Winnipeg business, sounds more personal than anything.

What the hell difference does it make how many posts we have on Canreef?!? Like the number of posts you have made makes your point more or less valid. Give your head a shake.

Fact- The guy broke the law. He should be punished.

Nothing personal at all....but if no one says anything about stuff like this then it continues. By not speaking out against it, you are condoning the behavior.

I don't know where my shoes were made either, but if I hear a company uses sweat shops, then I don't buy from them anymore.

To state that we shouldn't comment on this because we aren't intimately aware of the process of collection is retarded. By commenting on this we are making ourselves more aware of the process and by getting rid of greedy conmen we are making sure that those shady practices are not allowed to continue.
Anyone that would defend this guys actions are just showing their true character, and I wouldn't buy anything from you either.

the guy ****ed me off. wouldnt warranty his product brand new out of the box.

i hope his business fails so he can stop screwing people

his logic was: the store i bought it from took my money so they should warranty it.

my question to him was "you send out skimmers to retail stores for free?"

jorjef, you are in Regina. We are in Winnipeg. There's a fair amount of info that has been going around for some time among local aquarists about this subject. here is the link that lists the full CITES control list-- species for which you can get permits.
http://ec.gc.ca/cites/listedecontrol...ist.swFullList
Please note scleratinia rock is not on that list.
As for two people crucifying a business-- had you seen the posts on the local fish forum for the few hours the thread was active before it was shut down, you would know the local fish community was pretty p'd off with this guy.
It would be useful if you were to try to form your opinions based on solid information.

Gee,...MarkoD has hundreds of posts!!! I guess you'll give more weight to his opinion.:mrgreen:

Considering a bazooka or AK would get me more jail time than 20,000 lbs of illegally imported live rock...uh, yeah I think you're spot on with the second sentence there! ;)

Yup. :D

Well, you had me on the fence there for a minute....I had a very clear picture of you in your backyard lining up the sights and making a big boom!!!:razz:

wait what? jail time for an AK?

Do you shop at Walmart? better not....The punishment needs to match the crime. You want him erased from the world and are going to no ends to voice this. Yep he's been proven guilty and will be sentenced, how are you making the world a better place by shouting out about the past, go make a difference in the future or quit preaching.

this is way more entertaining when im not a part of it

LOL ya my hand was out taking the fresh new 20's that Mindy made in her back yard shed. as I hand over the freshly new painted M-72 rocket launcher.

:wink:

I think you guys should leave the personal banter out of this unless you want the mods to close the thread. If you feel like being a jerk do it in PM. A thread like this should be discussed, and would be a shame to see it closed.

Are you talking about the seahorses? Seahorses were added to the CITES list (meaning they required permitting) in 2004. I do believe that in 2008 you could still get CITES for wild seahorses...I can't find any references to this right now though, but I thought it was just a couple years ago that the wild collection ban came into place. Anyone know for sure...can find reference?

Ya I'm done...:biggrin:

ya Mark go plan a wedding you hoser.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

So then people should not discuss the wars or the holocaust, that stuff is all in the past.

The way you change the future is by making sure people don't forget the past. You want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead if it makes you feel better.
I did my part today to inform people that obviously care, what did you do....???

And I don't want him erased from the world, people need to be informed so they can make intelligent decisions. I posted the story so people could read and make their own judgements.

Resist the urge to be a jerk...DOIT! :p

play nice you meany lol

why would i plan a wedding? im not getting married :neutral:

I guess this hobby brings out passionate beliefs in people and it's difficult to express this in a forum without it get inappropriately heated and personal. I've been reading every post and I see both good points and flawed logic in here. To quote Yoda, let go of your anger. Ultimately this is a sad story regardless what we feel about any individuals.

Debate nice please. I'd rather not see this get closed.

I agree 100%

I believe in speaking out against any wrong doing I consider significant. It doesn't matter if it's a LFS or a major bank. Bad is bad. Nothing personal at all.

And I am not angry so much as disappointed really. Being stuck smack in the middle of the country makes for poor accessibility to the whole SW industry. We have very few local SW suppliers, and their access to good products and equipment is limited.

SWC is/was one of only a handful of local SW shops and I can't deny that they make some good equipment. They are one of the largest dedicated SW stores, if not the largest in Winnipeg. That is what makes this so sad. He was making an important contribution to the hobby, locally and internationally.

No anger there, just say'in..... Yes, yes Mindy I know, but they were being jerks too!! I admit my comments are usually not of a constructive type but I don't agree with some of the comments and wasn't going for a sugar coated compromise to the subject, they came out gunning hard and I disagreed with some of their views.

:popcorn:
These are not the liverocks you are looking for...

No anger at all. He has never hurt me directly or personally.

I don't feel he should be allowed to stay in business. My opinion.
The fine and jail time are what he is facing as stated in the article, just a fact.

You don't need to be angry to stand up for something.

I also think that a big stink should made out of this so that the public knows that us hobbyists do not agree with this type of behavior. With what is going on with the proposed ban in Hawaii, stuff like this does not help our hobby!

So if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you, too? :lol:

No, I just yell at them as I watch them fall....There is nothing "right" about being in this hobby, no thinking we're ethical just because we rally about the extremes in the industry either good or bad. We still keep captured wild animals in a small glass box. If a person has a problem with the way the industry is they should leave the hobby rather than support it. :biggrin:

This is true..... But if we choose to be involved in this hobby, however selfish that may be, then we can also choose to support retailers that do things legally...... No?

thats where i stand too......without laws and regulations to follow alot of stuff would go downhill pretty quick......whats so hard about obeying the law???

Sure that's what we do when we decide where our dollars are spent. There would be people/retailers that would have bought the rock regardless of how it was obtained I don't think he would have brought in 10 tons without a few of them being pre sold or at the very least knowing he could move it. How can anyone be certain the rock they have in their tank, the fish they take home or the corals they buy are 100 percent legal. With an industry that starts mostly in impoverished nations you could hardly blame a local for cutting a few corners (or breaking the law) to feed his family. But when that product hits the shops who can say with complete certainty that it was brought in legal.

Right, but the "the way the industry is" in general is not illegal importation!

Yes, agreed.

As a hobbyist you never know, that's just such an open statement that it is kinda ridiculous.

If one more person refers to the permits as CITIES I'm borrowing Mike's AK =)

Given the mood around here I should add that that's a joke :biggrin:

It is when you take it out of context, not so much when you read what went along with it.

Agreed! I refrained from commenting. :lol:

It was still ridiculous. I just don't like big huge quotes, so I only quoted exactly what I was commenting on. I always do this. :becky:

How conveeeeeeenient lol:lol: Okay I'm done again...