Kyle this one is for you...

Doug is on the money with that statement. Good customer service can seem like a pain and expensive in the startup phase of a new company, but it pays off in the long run.

We do stand behind our product, we conveyed the info to our manufacturing line when we first heard about a 175 watts 10K mishap (till date we are not able to reproduce this at our end, because the only bulb returned to us worked ok), who in turn contacted APL the supplier of the MH salts for most MH bulb manufacturers in the world based in Urbana, IL. They gauranteed that this was not something with the mixture used, we have also requested a 21 point quality check in the manufacturing line at additional cost, in addiiton to the ISO 9001 quality assurance program. May be it was an overhead that was not needed but we still absorbed it.

I don't know what more to say.

Also our sales has grown exponentailly and we do make every effort to satisfy our customers, but you'll also agree that it does not work always.

We aim for 100% satisfaction but I am not sure if there any prodcuts with a 100% satisfaction.

Venki

your local lower mainland aquarium supply retail outlets are being contacted at this time, soon our website will be up and running with a page listing retail outlets that are carrying our products. (Sun Aquatics bulbs & ballasts) When your local stores have been shipped product, you will know about it before they recive it. The wonders of the internet...

Well, I think the above is excellent. People like to know they can get a quality product at a good price.

What I would have done in your position with the previous client who sent bulbs back to you, would have been to burn in a set of bulbs, ensure the colour quality was fine, and shipped out a new set. If the client wont accept a new set, I would apologise for his negative experience and refund all of his money. Charging a restocking fee and not refunding the shipping charges is like kickin the guy when he is down.

I do know a little bit about customer service and retention, I run a company in a fiercely competitive industry. We have been around since 2000 and plan to be around until the market is dead (hopefully a long ways ahead). We aren't the lowest priced option, so for us, customer service is the #1 factor in retaining our clients and acquiring all their business. It is also the only reason we acquire new clients - our satisfied clients refer their business partners and friends to us.

Anyways, as I have said several times, I think your product is good and your price excellent. If you had better distribution and a gentler hand when it comes to customer service, I think you have a formula for a long term, profitable business.

Lost, I agree 99.99999999% Venkiw did say how ever that the bulbs worked on his end with their electronic Ballast (which isn't available to us yet). The customer however did use the recommended ballast when the problem occured. I don't think burning in a new set of bulbs would work but sending out a new pair before making the customer wait while they burn the bulbs in would have been satisfactory. If the customer still had a problem the blame could then be put on the ballast.(s)
One question I have is, did anyone recommend the customer move the bulbs to the other ballast.. IE Bulb A to ballast B and Bulb B to ballast A? Surely that would help determine if the problem were with the bulb or ballast, would it not?

Doug

Good points Doug^and Lost
We are working very hard to setup a good reliable distribution network, thing are being ironed out, we want distribition to be reliable, and efficent.... product availibility is just around the corner...

Sorry to hijack the thread bob :)

A restocking fee? :neutral: This is getting out of hand. You guys should have taken a few classes or at least some advice on how to run a business before jumping into this.

hehe, "How to lose customers 101" :eek: I know at my office we bend over backwards for our customers.. its only under certain circumstances we charge a restocking fee..

this had nothing to do with us....
please "watch" your choice of words... thanks

Your just a re-seller are you not? I don't think there is an issue with UnderWorldAquatics..

if anyone has a problem, question, or complaint, please call us at
(250)763-2098
we will be handling all west coast business relations...
Thanks: Kyle

We are the exclusive west coast distributor of Sun Aquatics products. All west coast business relations will now go through us at UnderWorld Aquatics

We have no knowledge of previous transactions....

We will be making customer satisfaction #1 as we do with other avenues of or business.

In response to weather or not I tried the bulbs with the different ballasts......I did. I also let venki know this. I am not doubting venki that the bulbs worked fine on his electronic ballast but the point is that I verified that they would work on my magnetic pulse starts ballasts before I bought them. And well they didn't along with other people’s non electronic-ballasts. The reason I let the restocking fee slide initially was i was just so frustrated with the whole thing. Now I look at this and realize how weird the whole thing is. I am not trying to turn people away from sun aquatics....just let them know about the situations with the 175w bulbs and the unseen disclaimer(about tar ballasts)......and the return policy! From what I hear the 250w and 400w bulbs seem to be impressive. I guess I am just one of those suckers that gets scr**ed.

Sadly you may be but it sits as an example for everyone else who is or was considering trying the bulbs out. I'm not impressed, at this point I think he should be shipping you out two bulbs and forget about who did what or that they worked on his equipment... Satisfy the customer, period.

Doug

PS this seriously damages the reputation of Sun Aquatics in my opinion, a make up gift of two bulbs to the customer would surely help restore some of the damage but not all of it.... Kyle you may be the distributor but you're in a bit of a hornets nest now, like it or not, someone has to do something.

So if I have a problem with the 6 bulbs I bought am I suposed to contact you? I sent my money to venkiw and that is who i will continue to deal with on my purchases prior to you. after all if there was a defective bulb how would you reinburse me monies that I never paied you? I understand you want to let people know you are the new source of the bulbs, but the seller was Venkiw when a lot of people bought them operating under sun aquatics and that is the vendor we still have a right to deal with, not "Kyle's fishtank cleaning service" or "Joe's tank repair" or J&L, or Underworldaquatics.

Steve

I understand what your saying Steve, I just want customers to feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns on Sun Aquatics products. As a distributor network is being setup, Sun Aquatics products will be distributed through UnderWorld Aquatics for BC, WA, OR, and CA...
If you are located in the mentioned regions, Underworld Aquatics will be handling customer service from know on... Im very sure that everyone will be satisified with our level of customer service, unsatisfactory situations will be rectified as best as we can........

Again, please feel free to contact UnderWorld Aquatics (250)763-2098

Thanks: Kyle

Guys, can we keep this thread about comparing the pictures? Vendor rating and announcements have separate forums, thanks! :biggrin:

Guys,

The day I received the bulb from bob, one of my repeat buyer wanted a 175 watts 10K. I was out of stock at the time but he was so desparate for a bulb that he asked me if I had any returned bulbs (I normally discard them). Bob's bulbs just arrived that day so I told him as such, and gave them to him at 50% price.

Sent the bulb the same day to the client, he now has three bulbs 175 watts 10k on his system with TAR ballast.

Response from cleint:

The bulbs are all working fine and he sent me a note indicating his satisfaction with the prodcut and the he would recommend our products to anyone looking for a bulb.

Venki

PS:- I have since refunded the money to Bob the entire amount he paid to the original buyer.

So, what are you saying, Bob's wrong? or maybe you mean, Bob's equipment is faulty? Or maybe you're trying to say, "it's not my fault"? either way I don't see this as a post that would ecourage me to buy your bulbs. On the contrary. I see this as a grasp to point a finger.
Bob had a problem or an issue, you refunded his payment (YEAH perfect) but now you're telling us that someone else with a TAR ballast is running Bobs old bulb and it's working fine. If you aren't trying to say what I've thought you were, please enlighten us.
I'm glad I've seen you post this and vendors thing where you ask us if this is anyway to do business. You'd think by now you would have seen that nothing gets past us for long. Someone else would have brought that up and said, wow isn't this guy a dork but instead you did and you made yourself look rather small and unprofessional, I'll thing twice about trying to save a buck on lights.

Doug

Doug,

I was not trying to point a finger at anyone, I was just trying to bring closure to this situation. I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I get emails, and posts on other boards about the 175 watts 10K bulb being defective, unfortunately this spreads like wild fire. Even I was convinced that the products were somehow mislabelled when I first heard the reports on reef central, which is ultimately costing me 4000$ more on my next batch of bulbs for additional quality assurance.

It is frustrating when all of the 4 - 175 watts 10 bulbs that were deemed defective by the buyer as "pee yellow" and returned have all worked fine both on TAR and Electronic ballasts. I am even at a lack of words to explain what is going on as it is puzzling.

While I agree that there may be a few TAR ballasts in the market that may not be compatible with the 175 watts 10K bulb. Or the ballast may be defective as well as, which we cannot rule out.

After all this effort we still don't know what is causing the problem. Having spent 4000$ on this issue and still not finding a solution is frustrating as well. I guess I vented out my frustration, and didn't mean to offend anybody - I repeat.

Venki

I hate to continue this thread, but I must. The bulbs as far as I recall were advertised as working on any ballast. I admitted to Venki by way of a PM (which has not been picked up BTW) that I appear to have an oddball ballast. It is a BritePro 175W ballast that is supposed to run a 175W MH bulb, or a 175W Mercury Vapour bulb. It is a brand new Cap & Coil ballast. When I ran the SA bulb, the colour was pee yellow, and the ballast ran quite cool indicating the bulb was not firing properly. The colour originally was great, but only lasted for a few hours. At this point in time I am running an old AB bulb. I am getting 15,000 lux at the bottom of the tank, which seems quite respectable. Yes Venki has put $40.00 into my Pay Pal account, which I don't know what to do with, as I have never used Pay Pal, but I am sure I can use it somehow.

I am not blaming anyone, but I am trying to inform other folks who have purchased 175W bulb from Venki that I am having some problems.This forum is great, as we are not isolated in our problems, but are able to inform other people of the problems we are experiencing. In that way we are united, and perhaps we can cure the problems before they spread. :rolleyes:

It reminds me of an old saying....

"Fools rush in." :razz:

Anyway, the wrong ballast will make any 10kk bulb look yellow ime.

That is probably correct. However, the bulbs were advertised to work on ANY ballast, and works fine with the AB bulb. :rolleyes:

As I have said a number of times, the function of a ballast is to act as a current limiting device. It appears that my ballast would not allow the correct amount of current to develop. In that way it is possible the Venki bulb was unable to develop the correct level of current to fire properly.

In that respect it might be wise for the bulb distributor to amend his advertising to state that the bulb will function properly on ballast he has tried. He might also list those ballasts, and also state that it may not work on some ballasts.

I would think that would be a good compromise. :eek: