Brett
Looking great can`t wait to see water in it!!! I like the side overflows on mine, im sure you will too. Tagin along come over to my place and we can plan a raid on Kiens tanks one night. Just Kidding

Dude I've practically got a LEASH on Kien now. He didn't tell you I'm his running coach? Raid sounds like a good idea though!

Let me know when your going for a run and I could do the dirty work. I must stop over there one day and have a chat with him its been a while.

When you said two sides viewable I thought we had won a watch, now I see one side is actually an end panel, although this doesn't eliminate the system I have been discussing in the mulltidirectional thread it does make it a little trickier, assuming the back wall is black indicates that you don't plan on spending much time viewing back there and that wall may well have rock against it, correct me if I am wrong.

Just a thought, if you were to swing the tank 90 degrees you would have a true two side view and a better view from your desk, if not then we will deal with the cards we have been dealt, alternatively if you give up the viewing area in the fish room then we can accomplish almost everything.

Typically I start by determining where the overflow is and insisting that surface water moves in that direction, you would be amazed at the number of people that have it all wrong and do not understand why they are having a tough time with their system, their surface water is akin to a cesspool.

In your case you have what I would usually label a peninsula tank, except you blacked out one side, return water from the sump should enter the tank at the visible end at the surface and be fired horizontally down to the overflow end, where you have a Beananimals drain system.
Regardless of whether you go with the barrel roll principle or the reversing principle the surface flow should be fixed as suggested. until you have time to look over the plan it will be hard to determine the best design, depending on your response.

The only other thing that I will offer is to get the best blast for the buck and the best flow available all outlets and drains should enhance each other,additionally, the main object other than removing crap from the tank is to move as much water as possible without internal interference, don't fire outlets into rocks or walls, fire them into voids so that the whole volume of the tank is pulled into the action.

This will be the goal.

Paul

Paul, I'm curious why you suggest specifically a Beananimal overflow and not, say, a Herbie or other?

Paul thanks for the detailed response. To quickly clear a few things up...the room is only 12 feet across and I don't really want to rotate the tank.

The rockwork will be well away from both the front pane and the rear pane. I don't like rock touching the back wall (or even being close to it). Easy access means I can get in to scrape it clean. I'm going to paint both side and rear panes so you are free to put holes wherever you wish there.

The overflow box in the model is only 12" high. I don't imagine I need to make it narrower to incorporate outlets that flank it higher up as that will flow against the returns.

The tidal thing just sounds neat but really I just want my flow to be hidden as well as possible and to be a bit random with one of your units. Random or at least varied as with the tidal thing.

Thanks!

As with any build I have to read between lines, especially when using emails , phone calls usually get quicker results as tone of voice and hesitation can be sensed quickly.

Given the proposed design, the first option that would work would to be simply do the barrel roll system down the length of the tank, looking at the tank from the seating area with the overflow on the right the whole tanks volume would move in a clockwise manner, surface water left to right, lower water right to left, this would be accomplished by outlets coming from the bottom up all outlets would be pushing water to the left , this would be switched from outlet to outlet repeatedly placing large volumes of water at different progressive locations down the length of the tank, in recent years this has been called a gyre, trust me it is the same thing sexed up a little, I still call it a barrel roll.

You would see no plumbing, it would speed up and slow down and as a result there would be an inclination for corals to grow in favor of that direction, however the slow and fast move apparently doesn't have as much directional growing as a fixed closed loop without any speed /switching change.

C/L pump feeds would be accomplished by multiple feeds buried in the rock work, these in turn would point towards where the flow is coming from to enhance flow, multiple drains will give better coverage,reduce velocity to avoid sucking in critters and protect flow reduction in the future because of the excessive feeds, stay away from screens that stop sand from entering the drains, place them where it will not see sand, fine screens will clog.

Ponder this and will await your response.

Paul

wow Brett, this is awesome, you must be stoked.

congrats.

LOL @ the 404 error.

Brett, i think you should change it to 405, to avoid any 'error' causing the build to be incomplete... and up to 405 rather than down to 403, avoiding a downgrade! Haha.

I hope this one comes together for your just the way you'd like man! And again, let me know if I can help out with anything!

Cheers,

Chris

Dude I told you, that was just a one time thing. Thought we agreed that was just to satisfy our curiosities.

Bean was officially warned by his wife "one more flood and I am out of here" she said.
Bill then took what he had to work with and designed a system to ensure that his loving wife remained that way, Herbie I believe stumbled on the noise issue solution and then perfected it. both will work, one just has another level of "Murphy's Law" protection.

Either system is designed to make things quiet from day one, Dursos and Stockmans are another method to reduce noise for systems that were designed incorrectly in the first place.

Most times when you see people posting about issues it is always after the fact, they built something incorrectly and are now trying to fix it. I can think of many ways to have a silent system, why make things overly complicated though, when I read that a system is being planned and dursos are part of the initial design I shake my head, why build a parachute into the back of your car, just build the brakes correctly in the first place.


Which reminds me I have a parachute for sale, used once, never opened, small stain :) SOLD

Agree 100% on Stockman's and Durso's ... was just curious about the Beananimal recommendation since it was rather specific. Thanks for the explanation.

Again Paul, you made me laugh. I'd like to purchase your parachute.

Haha. No more clowning about guys! I'll send Kien over with his leash.

Paul I'm taking what you said and doing a new model to see if I read you right. If you're standing in front of the tank the overflow is on the LEFT not the right so I think I just need to reverse what you said. Gimme 10 min lol.

I'm using a Herbie btw. This will be my third.

And for the tank's size...would you think a Reeflo Hammerhead would work well for this CL?

Hey Brett, I emailed you a closed loop sketch from Paul.

Ok if I understand correctly this will work.

Green is my returns, yellow my intakes, red my outputs.

Should the returns be 1.5" and the drains 2"?

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/404/sketchup3.gif

Thanks!

The principle is correct, you may well need more outlets in the bottom due to the length and size of the tank, depending on your personal preference, outlets could be 1 1/2 or 1" .

Drain bulkheads would be 1 1/2, there is no head loss to pumps in closed loops, the head from the tank will feed more than the pump needs, you can use 2" but isn't etched in stone.

It's now 2:15am here and I need to be up in a few hours, 15 more minutes of Top Gear on BBC and I am off to bed, catch you all in the morning.

The Hammerhead pushes 6000gph at 0' head.

So 2 x 1.5" drains will allow me to diffuse that pull sufficiently in your opinion?

As for the outlets...I can keep the pair under the overlow and have another pair of 90s in the bottom and spread them out some. Any reason the pairs should or should not line up? Is staggering better?

And of course 1" outlets will be easier to hide. I'm not sure with fittings like these whether or not flow can really be broadened much by using a larger fitting. I intend to use your omniflex nozzles. Perhaps they don't come in 1.5" I'll have to look.

Regarding the omniflex tho...in Dez' build they appear to be 45deg fittings. Would that not push flow up and work against the sump returns? 90s would push all the way to the end (all working together) and then hit the pane and go up and then pushed across the top. Maybe the 45s are better what do you think? Better for a sandbed I'm sure.

Two more outlets:

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/404/sketchup4.gif

Here's a pretty lame drawing of what my rock layout could be like. I want it pretty simple with 3 main structures. Paul had requested I draw something up to help me with hole placement so I can pass along the details to Concept.

The silliness. I think I lost a mushroom and one of my high-heeled shoes in this drawing.

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/404/rocksketch1.gif

I can send you back the mushroom ledge from my tank if you really really want it? :lol:

Isn't that the mind altering kind of mushroom?

why are you putting your wife's shoe in the tank? Is that a new trend I haven't heard of? Just curious.

This is a quick idea of how I would drill, you might get a better idea as to how it all sort of works and get you to redraw the rocks.

Paul

I will show the drains later.

Thanks Paul I like what you did there. Are you saying that's not ideal and I might *want* to change the rockwork up or...?

Here's the damage this evening. I'm outta green tape and the tank got pushed out from the wall an extra six inches. Dang hefty maintenance guy was already complaining it was a bit tight.

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/404/tape.jpg

Need to see this
 

Hay brett you should come by the shop sometime, I had a vendor drop off a simple off what they can do with a water jet cutter. I am think I can get a one piece eruo brace for this build with out breaking the bank Lol when I get a chance I will post a picture for you on sat when I am back in the office.

Thanks Dave

Have to say I'm a bit jealous, love the size of this tank, it's going to be pretty sweet when it's all set up and running :biggrin:

Think the wife will let me stop by again? Last time she lost me for a couple hours lol!

Jealous?! You've got like 600 gallons+ to your name! But yeah I am so stoked. Not sure when she'll get all wet but I am so looking forward to seeing this thing come to life!

Here's my newest addition to the 404 family. This things eats babies it's so mean.

http://www.fishbrains.net/images/404/hammerhead.jpg

ya oh so your stuff is mean is it OH I see how it is ...


:agrue: I don't Like you anymore Brett. hmmmmmmmmm:mrgreen:

Not saying it isn't ideal, I just wanted to show you where I would drill given the drawing you posted, the flow, where possible should move as much water as possible to pull in water from the surrounding area and hopefully gain momentum, burying C/L feeds in two of the islands will help as well.

Placing the bulkheads just inside the edge of the aquascaping goes a long way to hiding all hardware in the tank,the C/L feeds will not be seen at all, sometimes a return really needs to be at a certain place to get optimum flow and in that case you need to disguise it with small pieces of rock and or shells.

There are ideal scenarios for getting the maximum blast for the buck and getting excellent flow, but this isn't a frag tank you are building, this is your tank and your aquascaping done to your design, it's up to me to figure out the best way to get the flow in the tank that you want.

Paul


now off to bed I tee off in 4 1/2 hours

My whole system is over 600g but the main displays are just standard 230g tanks. I would love to have a much longer/wider/shorter tank. Hummmmmm maybe it is time for a new house with a very large basement :lol: Now I just need the money for it!

Brett just to add a little more stress to your build for you lol

we are bring in a new glass from china, not sure what to call it but will name it "ever clear"for now, it's half the price of starsphire and i am told just as hard. Had a simple to see today and i like it is clearer than the starphire glass but here is two pic's for you to check out
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_0066.jpg
the new glass is on top and starphire is on the bottom
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_0067.jpg
again the same thing from the side
If you like this idea there are only two problems, i know i just had to throw something else in there for you lol,
1) it looks thinner than the starphire
2) glass won't be here for another 2 to 3 months:frown:

thanks Dave

Dave come on you tease.

Ok how much thinner in mm? Any reason to worry about their claims considering it's unknown glass in a way? It sure looks clearer!

We'll have to talk lol.

If you look at the first pic I posted it shows the difference between the two types of glass, it is very slight! We are using their float glass now and I would have to say it is harder than the glass we were getting from ppg, you can ask Michika about that lol it took us over 8 hours to buff out some flaws we missed when we dropped it off.

So I guess expect to see a tank in roughly 2-3 months as I am going to give this new low iron glass a shot. Looks very promising from what I do know about it so I guess we'll see!

3 months!!!! cmon man, we cant wait that long!:razz:

Well first off get Doug to move up 2 x incomes and BAM you have a bigger house.

That glass does look really clear and cool can't wait to see how it turns out.

+1

Yeah, by then you'll have changed your mind and want something else! :razz: