Salt is by no means cheap to any vendor. To ship salt (which is bought by the pallet) is very expensive.

The last IO order I got in on with a local vendor the salt came to roughly $32/bucket by the time it got to the doors. This was the sale price at the large vendor expo in vancouver. If your buying many more pallets at a time I can see it being cheaper but we just dont have that turn over. BTW this was shipped right from the factory.

As for the skimmer we have them on our LR tanks and your right the amount of stuff actually pulled by the skimmer is very little. We have a big Vertex on our rock tank but it is still pulling some protiens out.


Very well said. I couldnt agree more.

I think some people like their live rock fairly dead and clean (except for bacteria), and some like it with more life. When I got mine some months ago, I decided to try an experiment. I controlled the spikes with prime to preserve as much life as possible. (and yes, my tank still did cycle...it is 6 months old and doing super). Now I have some zoos, sponges, tons of coraline algae and lots of feather dusters. One has a 2" span and is one of my favorite things in my tank. I did have the side affect of a few unwanted hitchhikers, but you have to take the bad with the good. I've caught most of them.

But yeah, this thread got way too serious. Just let people do what they want.

Well I don't appreciate people actually going out of their way with the sole purpose to bitch and complain about vendors especially when you don't plan on buying from them anyway. This serves no purpose what so ever except in giving vendors a bad name. I think canreef vendors are good at what they do, they may specialize in different parts of the hobby but that's just good business.

Open your own business and put everything you got into it and then see how you like people complaining and bitching about it.

This isn't a perfect world, I say get over it and try to show a little respect.

What did you say that you decided to edit 3 hours later?? You took the first post way to serious Steve.

If you have a retail store people WILL complain and bitch about it. That's a fact of business. Don't like it? Don't own a store! Better yet, listen to the bitches and complaints and try to improve the store the best you can. You can't get rid of all the complaints, but you can always do your best. Am I some great influence that I can single-handedly give the vendors on these forums a bad name? Come on now! Are you joking? There are many vendors on these forums that put their best foot forward everyday, and are continually trying to improve themselves.

The point of this thread was to start a discussion on live rock not business plans. The thread got rather off-topic rather quickly. I find it interesting that it's not the vendors that have such a strong resentment, just a few ordinary reefers who sit on each side of the fence. Seriously though, why is there a fence anyway? It's not that big of a deal.

:biggrin:

I'm sorry but this does sound like a slam to someones business practices, not just a conversation starter. I think if you were to have a conversation with the business they'd be more than happy to supply you with exactly what you are looking for. Most people are content with "live" rock, connoisseurs want fresh rock. Just like a connoisseur wants a BK skimmer, ELOS tank, and RD DC pumps. You pay for premium goods and selection of livestock. It's nothing new.

I tend to make it to a LFS when new products arrive and buy them before they even hit a store tank. This bypasses the issue all together.

I like coffee!

Cheers

Ohhhhh, another Skatchie that's ripped on this. I get it now!! You guys think this thread was started in regards to a particular local vendor don't you? It's not! If anyone thinks I was talking about a specific vendor that's not the case. The original post was a general comment regarding practices I have seen in the last few years all over western Canada including some of the largest vendors in the business.

Now I understand why I got PMs from a bunch of Skatchies.

Haahaa you have it all wrong. I'm not defending any business in particular, I felt you were trying to backtrack on what you said earlier lol. Maybe you coasters are too spoiled being so near to the ocean that you don't appreciate the fact that there even is a reef shop in Skatchie as you so eloquently put it.

Its no skin off my butt for you to complain, I just think its too easy to point out how things should be in a perfect world.

I too am upset with improper light cycles, tank temperatures, flow patterns, food regimes and tank mates found in home and business tanks alike for most if not all livestock... Mobile or sessile. I'd say live rock would be on the bottom of my list for concerned husbandry. But that's just me.

...where's my americano?

I read this and I can see that Myka isn't singling any vendor out more like "if you do this she thinks it sucks" Which is her view and right to say it. Many of you DEFENDER of the Vendor's are bitching at her bitching. If you don't like her bichen just stop reading. You guys are acting like she's trying to take down companies here. Not very christmasee people. Put your relentless attacks to use, go to the mall and get your shopping done. Merry x-mas

Not really, perhaps people from Saskatchewan just have a little more class and respect for vendors in general because we do have such a good one in the province.

Personally if I wanted peoples opinions on rock I would say "Hey guys how do you like your rock?" not "Hey vendors what's wrong with you?"
You didn't even ask for peoples opinions only why vendors don't do things the way you think it should be done.
I don't see how anyone could consider this a friendly conversation stater on live rock.

Besides if you want to bash vendors or just complain fine but don't get so uptight when people disagree and talk back. Doesn't make much sense to say you can complain about others but they can't complain about you.

Seems like a straight forward complaint on the business practices (the way a place conducts it's business...ie take care of it's livestock).

Myka, I know where you're coming from and I think I know what your trying to say. I also know where Steve is coming from. It's easy to throw a blanket statement about husbandry practices out but you had to have expected some debate on the subject. And the debate has both been on the actual husbandry (which you were trying to stimulate) and the business side of it (which was inevitable).

Of course people are going to protect a business they are proud to shop at. But people are naive if they think that a LFS is infallible. Of course they do things wrong, and it's usually not due to ignorance but economics in my experience. That doesn't make it right. Discussion is needed between the customer and LFS to express concerns and maybe even help them develop a new technique. If a LFS owner was receptive to this approach, you may also learn some of the constraints that they need to operate within to maintain a successful business. Everyone can learn from each other, and there is no way of doing that without dialogue. Good on you Myka for opening that dialogue. I think people need to get together to have a rum and eggnogg. Tone is lost in the internet and it's way to easy to misinterpret someones comments.

Good topic, bad approach, but overall mission accomplished.

Scott

Well said Scott, I don't have a problem discussing the best ways to store or cure rock as some of us already have but obviously there's a better way to do this.

I don't think vendors get neatly enough credit for what they do for the hobby, they are our support line. It's really easy for us to complain and act like it's so easy to do things perfectly to our own standards or beliefs but when it comes down to it, it just isn't that simple. Until the world is perfect we have to support those who support us, even if we don't approve of everything they do, and show a little more respect. We have freedom of speech but ethics and morals still apply so in other words let's not bite the hands that feeds us.