Not going to plow through the weekly updates from the Centre for Disease control for the statistics for the period of the 43 deaths, but I did find the information in the August 8th report

"8 of the 36 children who died of swine flu were aged 5 years and over and had no reported high risk conditions. Although two of these children were reported as obese, no data was given on their height and weight."

So for the time period in that report roughly 20% of the deaths in children were in healthy individuals.

I am not sure how many other deaths of children occured during that time period but if the vaccine were available at that time at these deaths were preventable.

If I was a parent of a child who died because of my decision not to have them or myself vaccinated, I would carry that guilt for the rest of my life.

André Picard, the health reporter for the Globe and Mail emphasizes this point:

"I am not getting the vaccine for myself, I am getting it for my grandmother"

+1

+1

Well said Tony, this sums it up perfectly for me. I plan on getting my shot for H1N1 on friday.

They haven't substantially changed the way they make flu vaccines in 30 years, how much more information could you possibly need?

Welcome to my world. My Girlfriend was here for the weekend and we both started getting sick Sunday night. She's a teacher and had half of one of her classes missing on Friday and there are a few confirmed cases in her school. Monday morning I made some calls and let everyone know I would be out of action until I knew what was going on.

I'm feeling better today and never developed a bad fever so I don't have H1N1. I'm glad I decided to stay home though.

H1N1 as some of you have stated is different from regular flu.

This is a strain that we have not seen before & hence it's more contagious as virtually nobody has a natural immunity to it.

Therefore it stands to reason that the H1N1 vaccination is also different from regular flu vaccinations as it uses H1N1 in it's make up, albeit in a deactivated form (not a dead form as some people have suggested).

There has been questions raised about the vaccine in regards to it's speed to market & to 'mistakes' that have occurred along the way. These have been well documented & anyone with access to Google can find them.

Also, regular flu vaccines do not contain the same adjuvants as most H1N1 vaccines. For example, in Canada, we are mostly using GlaxoSmithKline's vaccine. This contains their AS03 adjuvant. Because of this, it is not widely used in the US & GSK are having to await regulatory approval on their non-AS03 version of the vaccine.

So no, flu vaccines have not changed that much in the last 30 yrs, but if people think they have ALL the information they need, they might be wrong.

The facts so far are:

1 - Risk of catching H1N1 - Minimal (5.26% of Canreefers so far)
2 - Risk of dying from H1N1 - Very small percentage of Minimal.
3 - Risk of contracting serious complications from taking vaccine - miniscule.

I guess you just choose your own risk level.

However, that still leaves too many questions about the true origins of H1N1, the speed at which the WHO have escalated the pandemic levels, & the worldwide vaccination program being 'forced' down our throats by the government & the media.

Just look at the polls so far

- 37.72% - No
- 16.67% - think there's something sinister going on.

Over 54% of Canreefers can't all be stupid right?

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Okay the vaccine NEEDS to have some form of H1N1 in it, that's how vaccines work, it's like training wheels for your immune system. You can't teach it to fight a virus without providing it something that very closely resembles the virus.

The fact that this vaccine uses attenuated (damaged but alive) virus rather than dead virus is again not especially new. This technique hasn't traditionally been used for flu vaccines but has been used before. It is preferred as it works better in healthy adults and has been used in mumps, measles, rubella and yellow fever for many years.

The adjuvant was developed for use in the H5N1 vaccine GSK recently fielded, it made sense for them to use that as a starting point for the H1N1 vaccine. It was submitted first and got approved first. So what's your point?


I wouldn't say stupid, could 54% of Canreefers be wrong? Absolutely. More that once we've seen some very common misconceptions about reef keeping get shot to flames here, why should this be different?

What's my point?

1 - H1N1 is new & therefore we don't nearly enough about it but we're using it against itself in vaccinations. H1N1 is mutative by nature. That's how it became H1N1 in the 1st place according to most mainstream science/media reports. We cannot account for every mutation or further strains of this. There being many flu strains out there is why I still get flu time to time despite having flu jabs.

2 - The GSK Vaccine used in Canad has not been approved in the US because of it's AS03 adjuvants. My point is, are we using it if the US are demanding a AS03 free version? What's in these adjuvants?

3 - 54% can be wrong yes, but statistically it's more likely that 31.58% is wrong.

4 - My final point is, something still doesn't sit right with me about the whole thing & I can't put my finger on it.

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Every single vaccine ever made has either dead or attenuated microbe or pieces of the microbe's proteins in it. Your body recognizes the foreign proteins as being "not you" and produces antibodies against it. That is how you develop immunity and how vaccines work. So every year new flu vaccines come out using the new strains of flu virus expected that year. There is nothing different about this.

The reason why people still get the flu after having flu shots is that the flu shots for each year are a best guess made by the medical community as to which 3 or 4 strains might be a problem in the coming flu season. Often they get one or more wrong. Also, other strains do occur as well but may be less common then the ones vaccinated against. So seasonal flu vaccines are often not 100% effective. Do not confuse that with the H1N1 vaccine though as that is a known strain and the vaccine is targeted at it.

However, these adjuvants have been used in Europe for a long time and are well understood and tested there. The simple explanation is that adjuvants are extra ingredients that stimulate your immune system to produce a more vigorous response. It allows the vaccine to be effective but contain less virus. This was chosen to get the vaccine out sooner as growing H1N1 proved to be difficult and the supply of virus to make vaccines has been constrained.

I'm sure we can find many many many examples of the majority being wrong

If I had to guess I would say it is just a combination of the current mass paranoia that seems to be developing over H1N1 coupled to ignorance. And I don't mean that to be insulting, I'm using "ignorant" in the exact definition as "lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact".

I think since the average person has no substantial knowledge of medicine, microbiology, immunology, pharmaceutical science and epidemiology it is easy for them to get lost in the misinformation and silliness being reported. This is especially true with the internet where many things are written with little research or basis in facts and information.

I strongly believe that we should look at the big picture and work together to try to control the spread of pandemics which will likely be much more common in the future as the human population keeps growing and also global travel keeps increasing. it is very easy for a virus to travel to the other side of the globe in 1 or 2 days now compared to weeks to months 100 or more years ago.

I mentioned smallpox earlier. The only way smallpox was eliminated was through mass global vaccinations. Things like H1N1 and whatever comes next will also need similar responses to keep them under control. Vaccines and pharmaceuticals are heavily regulated. More so then almost any other product you will use. More so then cars for example. But when you get behind the wheel of a new car you trust that the regulations ensured the manufacturer built the car to have brakes that work and seat belts that work etc. Why should this be any different?

Government is usually pretty wasteful and stupid but if they are paying to have everybody vaccinated there is probably a pretty good reason for it. It's a lot of money that they can't use to line their own pockets or hand out to special interest groups for votes :biggrin:

The adjuvant used is squalene based and has been used in the UK since 1997 with over 22 million doses given. The use of adjuvants is not new in Canada just in the flu shot. Meningitis and pneumonia vaccines have been using adjuvants in Canada for years.

Link to a CTV News question and answer report on the vaccine.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...725?hub=Health

Another link from the Globe and Mail with Canada's chief health officer stating that the vaccine does NOT contain a live virus as some sources have been stating.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1336764/

Just for the record my partner works in Pharmacuetics so I do know a thing or 2 about how flu vaccines & other medicines work & how they're made. I've bugged her endlessly on this!

As you say, the H1N1 vaccine is specifically targeted at a strain of flu which is mutative by nature... what happens when a more virulent & more resistant strain develops? Do we keep updating our flu jabs like constantly downloading Windows patches & fixes?

The fact that they have to use adjuvants to boost effectiveness worries me & shows that they've struggled to get the drug on the market.

Why is H1N1 so virulent & contagious but when they try to mass produce it in a lab, they can't? Doesn't this indicate that H1N1 is something more exotic than a strain of the flu virus?

People are saying 22m doses of squalene based adjuvant enhanced flu vaccine has been administered without 'severe' events being noted. What they don't say is that the adjuvants in the H1N1 vaccine is not just made from shark liver oil but has added mineral & other bio content.

What people need to understand is that we're not comparing like for like. The H1N1 vaccine is not like the regular flu vaccine for numerous reasons.

As for smallpox? You can't compare smallpox to flu. You get smallpox you get very ill or very dead, very quickly. In fact there's an approximate death rate of 50% for the more virulent smallpox strain. You get H1N1 & only a very tiny percentage die.

As for implying that I'm ignorant... doesn't my post here show that I'm seeking to add to what I know about H1N1 vaccinations & what people think of them? I'm trying to educate myself here.

To say that I'm lacking information (hence my post to gather opinions) is probably true, but to call me ignorant is a step too far. How much of what you think you know do you REALLY know?

How much do we all really know about the origins of H1N1?

How much do we all know about GSK, Baxter & other pharmaceuticals & their rush to develop the vaccine?

How much do we know about the hundreds of concentration camps springing up around the US right now? Are they to quarantine people who refuse to take the vaccine? Are they to future quarantine H1N1 sufferers? Those are some pretty big camps!

How much do we really know about the Vatican? the Illuminati? the Rothschilds? the Free Masons? Knights of Malta? the plot to eliminate most of the planet's population so that 550 million of the enlightened ones can live in paradise?

Sounds like a Dan Brown novel, but do we really know that there's nothing more sinister happening?

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http://logisticsmonster.com/2009/10/...ccine-dangers/
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5237185n

I haven't had a vaccine since the Hepatitis C triple vaccine in grade 6, so I'm not exactly on the vaccine bandwagon. Call me ignorant, but enough other people will get vaccines that I have little to worry about. I haven't even had a "regular" flu in several years. I don't get sick very often. I had a cold last March though. :D

I'm not sure where I stand but my doctor who is also a family member, strongly advised myself and my fiancee who is asthmatic to NOT get the vaccine. His concern is not necessarily that anything sinister is going on here (nor do I) but simply that it was way too rushed as normal vaccinations for the flu are put under much more rigorous and longer term testing. He instead prescribed us tamiflu to have on hand. Asked us to keep up with our Vit. D, C, zinc, ect. along with a bunch of herbal suggestions.

He said its been a really tough subject at work lately as people ask him daily.

Actually both my brothers and mom have already had H1N1. One of my brothers was confirmed H1N1, so we assume the others also had it since it was all at the same time. Both my brothers got it very mildly although it lasted about 2 weeks. My mom was a little more severe I guess but she said the worst part was the aches.

The vaccine has been in development since the end of April, exactly how long is the regular annual flu shot worked on? The researches need to figure out what the most common flu's of the season are going to be before any development is done so when do they start working on it? Anybody know anyone who works in vaccine mfg that would know the answer to this?

If the H1N1 vaccine wasn't "fast tracked" the same people complaining about it now would still be complaining but saying that the research companies are taking too long and people are dying needlessly. The conspiracy would still be the same though, the government is trying to reduce the population by not vaccinating instead of by vaccinating.

Where did H1N1 come from? There are fossilized viruses found in dinosaurs, despite small brains maybe they bio-engineered them? Where did the plague come from? How about tuberculosis? Wasting disease in wild animals? Viruses were here long before humans and have been killing and mutating since the dawn of time. After 4.5 billion years of virus evolution I'm sure there is going to be plenty more new viruses to found in the future. The wild can only support so much wildlife and when it gets overpopulated a virus shows up and culls the animals, how much of a human population will the earth support before we're culled? The plague wiped out 1/4 of the worlds population once, was it Utopia after that or just the same sad world we've made for ourselves?

Of course no one is the same, we all have a different genetic make up. There is always a risk with anything medical, with every medicine, vaccine, chemical or procedure there will always be someone with adverse side effects from it. Nothing is risk free, you could try a new dish at a restaurant and die from an unknown allergy, so you need to judge for yourself if the risks of a vaccination outweigh the risks of the disease.

Just remember, dead people don't pay taxes!:smile:

Seasonal flu kills an estimated 500, 000 worldwide every year but rarely are the cases reported on. Every single H1N1 death is headline news lately yet for example in BC the death toll is still in the teens, I believe 12 deaths with less than 200 severe cases since this all began. Worldwide I believe its around 5, 000 now.

I'm not taking it lightly and it does concern me, I do think it could get worse, ect. but what does concern me is how fast the WHO declared a pandemic and started to push these vaccines. Less than 200 severe cases in BC (just using BC as an example because I keep hearing about how its worst hit in Canada) in 7 months, among 4.4 million people, is hardly a pandemic. Reason for concern of course but not a pandemic.

The WHO has different levels of pandemic and this one is a low level. Actually the word pandemic gets thrown out to the public suprisingly very easy from what I've read. It doesn't take much for a virus to be declared a pandemic so I would heed the word with a grain of salt, although one of the criteria is a viruses ability to become worse (which is a real potential). If the H1N1 virus does mutate to a more evil form there is no guarentee that the current vaccine will protect you but this hasn't happened yet and may never happen.

That Depends on how it mutates. The current vaccine may still provide full immunity, partial immunity or none at all. Can't predict that in advance. It depends on how it mutates.

The adjuvants are there to boost effectiveness when you don't have enough virus to make a full strength vaccine. Growing a flu virus in a lab culture is different then where the virus normally grows in human tissue. It is not the virus' normal environment so it may not grow anywhere near as well in culture. It would be like trying to grow SPS at the bottom of a 24" tank with some PC lighting. It might survive and maybe even grow really slowly but nowhere near as well as in its optimal conditions. Not the best analogy but something we can relate to on this board.

Maybe a bit different then the typical North American flu vaccine but it is very similar to the European vaccines that have been used for years in millions of people. So we have all that data on it.

Yeah, that is a more extreme example. However, as has been pointed out, this strain of flu is more virulent then the usual seasonal flu and is killing people that would not normally be considered as high risk from regular seasonal flu. yes, it is still a relatively small number but it is significantly higher then regular seasonal flu. Young children are considered a higher risk group in H1N1. I would rather take the chance of a 1 in a million side effect in my kids then the 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 chance they could become seriously ill or die from H1N1. I would also not want to be the guy that gave H1N1 flu to somebody who ends up dead.

As I said, I wasn't trying to be insulting and it was more a general comment that a lot of the fear and uncertainty is coming from ignorance and misunderstanding.

Well, I would hope that my degrees in pharmacoloy and toxicology coupled to my 15 years of work in the pharmaceutical industry and my earlier undergraduate education in microbiology and my 6 years or so of working in diagnostic microbiology labs gives me some knowledge and experience to comment on this stuff :smile:

Okay, now you're just getting silly :mrgreen:

For video number 1 I would take anything found on that website with a huge grain of salt. A bunch of sound bites from people does not constitute any real facts or conclusions. In any group of people; scientists and doctors included, you will find dissenters and people who disagree with the evidence or accepted conclusions.

Video number 2 is a bit more balanced but agin does not sound any alarms. Yes, there are slight risks associated with vaccines. They occur something like 1 in a million doses. That is a very good safety profile. I can give you examples of many approved (and considered generally safe) drugs with much more common side effects than that. I believe the doctor does go on to state that maybe 1 in 100 people who contract H1N1 will have severe illness, possibly even death. Well, a 1% chance of becoming very ill or dieing is much higher then a 0.0001% chance of having a reaction to the vaccine. I know what odds I want to play.

Pandemic is taken from the Greek pandemos, meaning "all the people". The word is used to indicate the spread of a disease and implies absolutely nothing about how serious a disease it may be. An influenza virus that has spread world wide in less than 6 months certainly qualifies as pandemic.

Take the tinfoil off of your head and fashion a face mask out of it. A simple solution that uses materials you obviously have readily available.

Ok being very simplistic here so bare with me...

Birds get flu.

Pigs get flu.

People get flu.

People rarely get bird flu or pig flu. Birds rarely get pig flu or human flu. (they sometimes do but apart from H5N1, it's rare)

Pigs are the link here. They can get both human & bird flu.

However, it's not normal for the flu virus to mutate to such a point that pigs can easily infect humans. It's even more rare for that virus to then mutate so that there's human to human contamination.

With that level of mutation it's likely that the H1N1 virus will mutate again.

Between 2005 & 2008 only dozen people in the US got swine flu. What changed in 2009? Why the sudden worldwide outbreak? Why does H1N1 not have the protein PB1-F2 & how does this effect the virulence & lethality of the flu?

The 22m vaccinations with adjuvants you speak of, do these mix fish oils with aluminium & mercury & other undisclosed biologicals? You have the data on this so it'd be great to let us all know.

When I ask what do you really know, I don't mean in terms of pharmacology, I mean with what's happening on a bigger scale. The larger picture of you will.

You may think it's getting silly to talk of all the different conspiracy theories out there but the one thing they do have in common is population reduction, control over world governments & the end of times.

I'm not saying I believe all those theories, but why discount them & ridicule them? Do you know for sure that everything we're told about the world is the truth?

Anecdotal I know, but I've been advised not to take the H1N1 vaccine by my GP, my partner (pharmaceuticals), the Head of Immunisation for ........ (province name withheld to avoid indentifying him without his permission), a surgeon in the same province, my family doctor in the UK & countless articles in the mainstream & alternative media.

GSP - did you get a preventative Tamiflu 'script because of your asthma condition?

Also, (and maybe Ron can answer this one too) how does Vit. D (or specifically Vit. D3 according to some) help against H1N1? I understand that it helps against bone dificiencies & helps the absorbtion of calcium & other elements but I'm unsure how it helps against flu.

I'm not being ignorant or arrogant but asking as many questions as I need to help me (& hopefully many others) learn.

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From the WHO:

As of 18th October 2009.

Number of cases Worldwide: Over 414945

Number of Deaths Worldwide: At least 4999

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Please don't be so insulting. There's obviously a sar-chasm between us. :razz:

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I think you have to keep an open mind and some of those theories are pretty "out there" and some are more likely but all are certainly possible. We are all so well trained to obey and not question how/why things work. I think its crazy how many people actually are so closed minded and think "it's just not possible". I don't necessarily believe in most of them myself but I also don't not believe in them if that makes sense. Do you really think the "people at the top" or in power if you will (and that doesn't at all mean government), live in the same world you and I do?

It was my fiancee who was prescribed Tamiflu as a precaution because she is asthmatic. Im not sure many doctors will do that but it's a family member who knows her medical background very well and like I said does not want us to get the vaccination. Her asthma was very severe about 7 years back and she was hospitalized a few times for it. In the past 5 years though, she has not had the flu once and rarely gets even a slight cold. In his opinion, she is not at a higher risk of getting H1N1 but the concern is how her immune system would react if she did get it. He just wanted her to be able to take Tamiflu right away if needed.

I'm glad we're on the same page! You said it better than I did.

You do know that Canreef is now being monitored closely right? I did mention 'US' 'Conspiracy' 'Illuminati' & 'Free Mason' in the same thread! :lol:

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No, No, and No...I don't want it. The last time I was sick was 5 years ago when I got a flu shot, and since then I don't bother. My son is 3 years old, and honestly the only time he has been sick was the night he cut his first two teeth. Other then that time, has has never had a snivle, sneeze, or cough...and yes, we chose to not give him the recomended barrage of vacinations when he was born. We're not hippies, or crazy people...we just take the time to research all of the facts that are now out their due to the internet.

The reason pigs seem to be a link appears to be due to the receptors that they have on their cells that the viruses use to attach and infect them. Birds and human proteins are different enough that the viruses have a hard time making that jump. Pigs seem to have proteins similar to both the bird ones and the human ones so the avian flu can jump to pigs more easilly. Once in the pig the virus can mutate to favour the human type receptor proteins and voila, you now have a virus that can more easily infect humans. Secondly, while a mutation to jump species is rare, mutations in general are much more common (I think I read somewhere the mutation rate in influenza virus is 1.4 per generation so in very simplistic terms within three generations of virus you can have a new strain). Especially in things like viruses and bacteria that reproduce quickly and measure their generations in hours instead of years. Thirdly, influenza virus has the ability to have what might be called virus sex (antigenic shift). So if an unlucky pig were to be infected with both an avian flu virus and a human flu virus at the same time they can swap some genes and you can end up with an avian flu virus that now has picked up some tricks to infect human cells too.

What likely changed in 2009 was a mutation to make the virus more able able to move from human to human rather than just pig to human. Often humans who work on the farms will catch avian or swine flu but the virus is then not able to go from them to other humans. I suspect it is common for farm workers to catch avian or swine flu but usually they have mild or no symptoms so it likely goes unreported and unknown. But occasionally they may catch a strain that is better able to infect humans and they may have a less mild flu so it is then noticed by the medical professionals. And on that rare occasion we end up with a virus that is more capable of doing the human to human jump and we end up with it now infecting the general population.

Several strains of flu do not produce the PB1-F2 protein and this strain of H1N1 does not either. It is not uncommon and it appears to be a good thing. The PB1-F2 protein appears to increase the virulence of the virus and make it more lethal. It was produced by the viruses that caused pandemics in the past so I guess we are lucky this time. This H1N1 could have been more virulent and deadly had it produced that protein. However, here's the thing. H1N1 does carry the gene for PB1-F2 but it is currently switched off. And while not active at the moment the virus could mutate and the gene could become active so a more virulent strain could emerge. This is one of the reasons vaccination is important. The more people vaccinated, the fewer people get infected and the lower the chance that a more virulent mutation can occur and spread.


The mercury compound found in the vaccine, thimerosal is there as an antifungal and antiseptic agent rather than an adjuvant. You want that there so bacteria don't grow in the vaccine and you end up giving people some other infection when you inject them. Firstly, it is a very low toxicity compound that is different than free mercury which is neurotoxic (although that neurotoxicity is reversible) or the organomercury compounds that are considered very toxic. Secondly, this type of mercury compound is actually excreted by your body fairly easily and will be eliminated quickly. Finally it is important to note that it is present in minute amounts and the vaccine contains less mercury then a can of tuna so it is not something to worry about.

The components in the vaccine are as follows:

1. 3.75 micrograms of H1N1 HA protein from the dead virus

2. Squalene. Doing a quick search it looks like the LD50 (the dose that caused 50% of test animals to die) is 1.8 g/Kg(grams per kilogram body weight). The amount of squalene in a dose of vaccine is 10.69 mg or 0.01069 grams. So in an average say 55 kg adult that works out to a dose of 0.00019436 g/Kg which works out to a margin of safety of over 5000:1. So if you gave a bunch of people 5000 vaccine injections to each of those people then about half would die. Of course that is assuming the same LD50 in humans and the LD50 in humans is typically much higher than in mice so the safety margin is likely even higher than that. BTW, that safety margin of 5000:1 is much better then many drugs you take commonly such as tylenol etc. Also, squalene is commonly used by the cosmetic industry in skin moisturizers so you have probably all been exposed to it in the past.

2. 11.86 mg DL-alpha-tocopherol - This is vitamin E. You all like Vitamin E don't you? :)

3. 4.86 mg Polysorbate 80. This is an emulsifier that helps keep the squalene (fish oil) mixed in with the water and other components in the vaccine. It is very common in food and cosmetics and considered safe. I think some studies showed that higher doses of Polysorbate 80 may cause infertility in rats that was at much higher doses then you will see in this vaccine (again, probably needing to inject thousands of doses to get to that level)

The vaccine also contains a number of excipients which are routine additives that are considered safe such as sodium chloride, the above mentioned thimerosal, potassium phosphate, potassium chloride etc.

As for other "undisclosed" biologicals that is not likely. Regulators are very strict about disclosure of what is in your drugs etc. and every ingredient, including water, has to be listed and disclosed. Uou typically have to submit results of independent analysis of your drug to the regulatory bodies. If you want to read about the vaccine check this link:

http://www.gsk.ca/english/docs-pdf/A..._CAPA01v01.pdf

I do think conspiracy theories are silly. Do you really think secret societies of powerful people are controlling the world? Not likely. Have you seen the egos these people have? Can you imagine Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc. being able to work together and agree on things to control the world? Not really likely

As for any conspiracy to reduce the human population why do we need a bioengineered flu virus or suspicious vaccines? We have war and famine and to do the job and mother nature is also very good at controlling populations with diseases such as this. So come on, let's be real. I discount and ridicule them because they are extremely implausible and unlikely. There is no real evidence to support them. But they make good stories for Dan Brown, Hollywood and the internet :) I would ask the people advising you not to take the vaccine to explain to you exactly why they are against it and provide sound evidence and reasoning for it.

I'm a scientist and I am all for questioning things as that is the scientific method. But it has to be done in a reasonable and systematic way and conclusions have to be arrived at based on facts, and evidence rather then anecdotes and feelings and fear and misunderstanding.

I'm not really sure if any direct link has been established between vitamin D and flus etc. However, it does appear that with our current diets and habits (more time in front of computers, TV, playstations etc.) we are all getting less sunshine and have lower levels of vitamin D so that can probably have general effects on our health and immune system. It does appear that vitamin D plays a role in production of certain immune system proteins in humans. Probably wouldn't hurt to take some Vitamin D supplements to make sure you are getting what you require and maximize your bodies natural defenses. But it is not going to be a a miracle cure or preventative etc. It may just help you fight the infection if you get it.

Anyhow, I need to get back to work now...

I believe that everyone should be getting this vaccine , as a biochemist/micro with most of my training in immunology. The H1N1 is getting worse . A person is infected for up to 48 hours befor symptoms. And hits hard! For 7 to 14 days... In which you infecouse and creatibg viral protiens untill your immune system can act..and often peole with compromised immunity are dieing .. By not getting the vaccine your not just putting yourself at risk but you kids family parents... (I don't want to be the one that spreads it to my 1year old nephew or your 80 year old grandmother on the bus that could kill them) the immunology is ty well understood and safe. Sadly that information is not own to the public 90% of the time and that causes the media hype and fear. The general seasonal flu is taken care ofby our immune system however H1N1 is hitting hard. As a science person it's my "strong and personal " opinion that everyone should be vaccinated because it's our responsibility to look after our health!! And the people we love !! If you do get sick stay home... Don't go to the. Doc unless you must.. Drink lots of electrolyte and rest.. For fever ice packs, and tylonal or ibprophan .. Do not over dose on tylonal though.. If your fever is 103 or higher call 811 bc nurse hotline Please stay healthy our fish depend on it:)

Unless you are visiting the sites of universities, hospitals, governments or scientific journals, I would be very suspicous and skeptical of information I found on the internet. Anyone can form their own organization, anyone can set up their own website and say whatever they want.

This link http://logisticsmonster.com/2009/10/...ccine-dangers/ has been mentioned as a source of information.

This is from the impressive sounding "4th International Public Conference on Vaccinations (sponsored by the Nat’l Vaccine Information Center) in October, 2009" http://www.nvic.org/default.aspx

Sounds like a scientific conference and a research facility but a little digging would show:

National Vaccine Information Center was founded in 1982 by Barbara Loe Fisher. She formed the Centre after her son suffered convulsions at the age of 2 1/2 and was left with learning disabilities and ADD. She claims this was a result of a vaccination.

Her education is bachelor of arts degree in English from the University of Maryland and she was employed by the New York Life Insurance Company.

Some of the exhibitors at the conference were E-HolisticHealth.com; Homeopaths.ca; Homeopathy Center of Houston;


This information is from someone with no background in science, who has done no real research and is supported by businesses who believe in crap - Homeopaths

Get your advice from the experts. Don't listen to the opinions of people who do not have a background in science or have no expertise in this field.

I would not ask my insurance agent about repairing my car. Why would you listen to them regarding your health.

I often wonder what will happen to these anti vaccine nuts if they manage to convince a parent to not vaccinate a child that ends up sterile from the mumps. Try and fix that with Oil of horsesh*t tea.

Good information. I didn't even bother to look up the conference or organization as the video had nothing of any actual substance in it but was a collection of sound bites assembled to frighten people and make vaccines look bad. But nobody actually cites any actual research or really even mentions anything specific. Just lots of general nonsense.

I remember some of the same when the seasonal flu vaccines started coming out. I started taking them every year and haven't been sick since. I love that !

I want the H1N1 shot, I wouldn't risk the people I love by passing it along should I get it. Don't much care about the hype.

I can't stand in long lineups because of my back, so I hope there is an alternative way out there.

For anyone who has already had the shot in B.C., what do you need to take with you? Health card or just ID? My fiancee has decided to get it because of her underlying asthma problems. I assumed showing them her prescribed puffer would be enough to prove she has asthma.

I'm not sure about BC but in Alberta the regular flu shot is free to all family members if one of them has asthma and since the H1N1 shot is free to all canadians I'm sure any ID or the puffer should be adequate.

I really have to wonder if all this conspiracy was around when the polio or small pox vaccines came out. Both of these diseases have almost been totally wiped out because of vaccines. People claim that vaccines are the cause of some other problems but that really doesn't explain the millions of other people who contract these diseases and never received vaccinations of any sort. It's unfortunate that genetic diseases exist but people are born with the gene and science doesn't know enough about gene therapy yet to solve the problems. As a parent I would be angry too if one of my children got a disabling disease and might seek to blame something for it. So I understand why people feel that way but if I took my first ever Tylanol and down the road I developed autism which I bet lots of people who develop the disease has taken the drug I wouldn't blame Tylanol I would blame bad genes. I really don't think people go to university because their life long ambition is to become an evil scientist and destroy the world, I would think most just want to make a positive difference in the world.

I think you nailed it right here. I have to wonder how much paranoia, mistrust, hype and hysteria are around because there are not many left in our current generation who have lived through an actual serious pandemic. If you take a walk through a cemetery old enough to cover the year 1917, it is interesting (and sad) to note how many young people (young adults, children, infants) were laid to rest that year. That was the flu. How many would have been prevented had there been a vaccine?

Tylenol. ;)

Good information here...makes me wonder about all this. Actually I am stressing about it because I don't know what to do. Usually when I don't know what to do I do nothing.

H1n1
 

So i am the kind of person who hates needles and doesn't ever get the flu shot cause i dont think its right. We have lived how many years with out it? The H1N1 flu shot scared me since if had never been tested on a human and the fact that it came out so fast. I have heard of a few people who have got the shot and really sick now. But the thing is i held back from getting the shot and came home from the hospital last night with meds and had so many different tests done. I have been diagnosed with H1N1 I can not go out in public, have to stay in a little room by my self, the symptoms i never will wish a pone my worst enemies. I have had a flu but this is much worse. The pain that i am in and the amount i suffer is over the top..

I am not only scared for myself but i am scared for everyone around me. One of the girls i worked with went into the hospital thursday last week and they said she had H1N1 and she passed away tuesday night. Its a crazy fast flu that once you get it will be with you. Hope your body can fight it.

If you have any of the symptoms at all please go get checked. I went to one hospital and since i never had the fever( i had ever other symptom) they told me to go home. I knew i was sick i couldn't walk really or breath and i knew i need to do something about it. So i went to another hospital and they took me in as soon as i told them what was wrong(good way to beat the lines) But i am only 19 years old and it was the scariest time of my life. I went myself and never had anyone there for support. Or to be there for me when they told me. The first thing you think is " am i going to die, what do i do, what about everyone i had been around"

I cant get the shot now since its to late for me. But i want my family and friends to get it cause i dont want to see anyone else like this. You have no places for your self. PLease wash hands after coughing and sneezing. and hand sanitizer if you go anywhere.

Dont mean to sound like you have to go get the shot, but this is my story and i know now if i didn't get sick i wouldn't be saying get it.

Feel free if anyone has symptoms to ask about them. I now have all the symptoms and know what extent they go to. If i can help some else before they get as bad as i am i would be so pleased.

Sorry to hear you are so sick. Get plenty of rest and fluids and if you start to get out of breath or find it difficult to breath get to the ER right away.

After sitting down and talking about it my wife and I decided to get the vacination. With her being a public heath nurse the chances of her coming into contact with someone who is infected were almost guarenteed. The only side affect for me is my arm feels like I got hit with a bat where I got the shot.

In Ontario (my hospital) we are giving you tylenol after your H1N1 flu shot. Expect the same level of discomfort you experienced after receiving a regular flu shot, perhaps a little more localized pain in the arm. We have given well over 1000 shots in the last 2.5 days...I have done all the medical pre-screening. No significant adverse side effects to date.

German military and other European powers are administering adjuvant free vaccines to their soldiers and government workers.

Something is amiss here

nuff said....