Great news, I hope they're successful. We need a similar action in Victoria.

Be careful what you wish for. This can easily be the slippery slope.

Not selling puppies in pet stores is a slope I'd slide down any day.

TOTALLY agree! 1000%~

Why?

saltcreep is kind of getting the idea of how it can effect an other pet trade

It's a great idea but even reputable breeders are questionable. Our family dog (lives with my parents) is probably the last remaining from his batch. We knew 2 other people that bought from the same batch of puppies and neither of them lived to see past their 5th birthday due to long term inbreeding. Our dog is full of problems but still remains healthy and recently has developed a hip issue.

Also petland tries to home dogs as well. They have a program that brings in unwanted dogs and gets them up to date with shots and vet bills. In return all they charge is the cost of the vet bills (usually around $300). Since alot of people purchase dogs from here it has proven to be very successful and most dogs leave the store in a week or 2.

Personally some of the best dogs I have encountered came from the spca and were reserve dogs. Also I hate seeing people selling 3 year old dogs on kijiji, its sad that the owner can't commit to what they started

I believe this petition exempts entities that are working in some sort of foster program. If Petland is working with a rescue, it would be exept from the bylaw. This also doesn't define reputable breeder, but it's a start in removing the market for puppymills to supply petstores with dogs that could sit in a box for months.
I recently met a couple that bought a boxer at the local petstore that sells puppies, the poor thing couldn't even walk. It had been in the little cage for 6 months
I've currently got a foster dog here that came from a mill, sold through a petstore, and is the most poorly adjusted dog I've ever met. Sweet girl, just doesn't have a clue about life.
Early development for puppies is a huge thing, and if the pup sits in a box from 7 weeks until it's 6 months, you're going to have a messed up dog. No way around that.
So for me, I think this is a very important issue, and I encouraged Deb to post it. Pet stores can do just fine without selling puppies; one of most successful stores locally feels the same way and the owner does just fine.

And to emphasize, the petition doesn't say don't go to pounds or rescues, it encourages it. My pitty cross came from the SPCA and is a wonderful dog (now).

Yes I read the whole petition and agree with it

BUT most people just don't give a **** and its sad. Honestly I can't even watch "I am Legend" cause he has to kill his dog. But back to reality of people not caring... To get this bylaw passed you have to hope that on city council you have a majority of animal lovers. Sure people like dogs but most just don't care where they came from as long at they are cute. Look at SMS (small dog syndrome) like you mentioned the young life of a dog is extremely important, now how many little dogs do you see that are properly trained and don't bark at leafs blowing in the wind every 5 min. Those dogs weren't properly trained and now they believe they own the world, my brother bought a yorkie from a rep breeder and never trained him. Even after years he still has a bunch of issues with not listening and doing as he pleases. Which than points at irresponsible owners and people who bought a dog cause they are cute. And there are alot of them out there. Now your looking at supply and demand. There is a huge supply for dogs and the more that are being sold (IMO) the more euthanasia will be present because no little girl wants a full grown dog. This brings us back to this petition, great idea but it seems like the only laws that get passed have to oppose keeping animals that could kill you. (BC and the reptile/ exotic pet thing that went on a few years back)

Plus I want to buy a boston terrier in 2 years once I have settled down a bit. Almost picked one up 7 years ago but decided against it.

It's always the Pet Stores that are blamed for the number of animals that end up in shelters. I would bet that if you visited any shelter in any city in Canada you would find mostly medium to large dogs that had been neglected by their owners. Now visit the Pet Stores in the same city and you will find that most Pet Stores only sell small dogs. Very few of these small Pet Store dogs end up at shelters yet they get the stigma as being all of the problem. You should also try speaking to the Petland people about how they source their puppies and ask about the breeder visits they actually do to every breeder they buy from. You will be surprised to learn that they actually have a do not buy list that is shared among all stores and that they will not buy from so called "puppy mills". Also don't confuse how Petland in Canada does business vs how the puppy business in done in the USA.

While the petition and current and proposed legislation in various constituencies are well intentioned, I feel it is misguided and it opens the door for further legislation on the retail stores. Of all the outlets available where dogs may be purchased, retail stores are the ones that are the easiest to regulate. An outright ban on sales is not the answer and will not have a large affect on the numbers of animals in shelters. I for one would highly encourage any retailer to participate in programs with shelters if they are wanting to offer dogs for sale.

A greater issue, especially for this hobby, is that local governments may not stop at dogs. The City of Richmond (BC), who enacted a ban on dogs in pet retail stores has indicated that they may investigate other animals for sale in stores. This is the slippery slope! The City of Vernon (BC) proposed legislation for the ban on "exotic animals" (I can't remember the exact term used) which included marine ornamental fish. That was subsequently voted down, but it is an example of where this could lead.

It is far too easy for local politicians, who feel they are doing the right thing, to go a step too far in what animals are banned. All it takes is one misinformed councellor to introduce a bylaw based on pure emotion rather than informed facts. This could easily happen if a city catches wind of how some fish or coral are collected for this hobby? The same ethics would apply to animals in this hobby as what are being used for an outright ban on the sale of dogs in pet retail stores.

Great post. If Cities want to be part of the solution in regards to health issues and shelter over-crowding why don't they inspect all places selling pets in their respective City. Put some guidelines in place. When you see a store or person not following your guidelines act against that person/store. Why should every store get tarred by same brush when all have not contributed to the issues at hand. Education is key to success in most things in life and puppy sales fit here as well. Mention Pet Store puppies now and people start to think "puppy mill" and that is just not true in the majority of cases.

Just as aside. I looked in the online classified for the Vancouver Province newspaper...93 adds for dogs for sale.

Hey Lorenzo, just remember training a dog is more than that, it is really the training of the owner... I was a dog owner, and grew up with dogs... Dogs that don't behave, you are correct they weren't trained. But is more than that, the owner isn't trained. It is all about Alpha, who is the boss, the training is training both the owner and dog, and the owner has to take the alpha role, if the dog thinks its alpha (THE BOSS), then you can be in trouble.

I believe all dog owners, should go through a training program with their pet. Look at the number of pet owners that don't, training of the owner and dog can solve alot of behavior issues. Not all but alot. Some pets may be just plain CRAZY!!!

I agree with you 100%, alot of people buy any pet because of cuteness. Without any research... Any pet does require some thought and research, as many have stated prior, some dogs are put into shelters because the owners did not do this. That isn't fair to the animal!

Just my 2 cents.

Oh totally. See my brother did nothing with the dog. walked it now and than, filled up the food and water dish and that was about it. My dad and I ended up spending over 30 hours replacing base boards that were destroyed due to dog **** and ripping up the carpet because the stains wouldn't come out. I mean text book example of a horrible owner. My previous description was a quick summery of the dog, and once they are older training becomes really hard. My dog on the other hand I trained him myself. Doesn't **** in the house unless he is left alone for WAY to long, doesn't rip anything up (used to love designer shoes), rarely barks, extremely friendly, but he has some selective hearing. Never got to train him for off leash.

But as everyone else has said and myself, your true problem is not in the store, but in the owner of the animal. If private sales were halted think of the influx into the SPCA and how much euthanasia would increase

This is the part I don't agree with. Once a puppy is isolated from either it's littermates or it's human's direction, and spends any extended length of time in this isolation, it misses out on critical cognitive and behavioural development, that may be impossible to fix. Which creates a dog that invariably ends up in a shelter, or PTS.
Early interaction is critical in canine development, and this isn't acheived in most pet store environments.

Nor are the animals of any quality.

First of all, no respectable breeder breeds crosses. Lhasopoos, Chidoodles, or whatever....

I've also known several puppies that came from pet stores. Everyone of them was nervy or just plain aggressive.

I don't know if Petland is still doing the rescue thing. I think they had a lot of problems. Robert is certainly speaking out against the bill, so I assume he stands to lose something.

Whether or not it is a go, I think it still serves to educate people who really think buying a puppy at a pet store is okay.

Oh, and to who it was above who mentioned getting a boston terrier, please do your research on the problems common in the breed, and find a good breeder who is working towards improving health and temperament, and not just letting two dogs of the opposite sex have at 'er.

And how does banning them in pet retail stores change this? See my post above...93 adds for dogs for sale in the online classifieds of the Vancouver Province alone.

Regulate the stores if that is the concern. Just don't outright ban them. It won't fix the problem.

I would bet that most puppies in Petland get more human interaction than most of the kijiji ad puppies. And again I will ask the question, if it's pet store puppies causing all the shelter problems why are almost all shelter dogs medium to large in size while pet stores sell almost exclussively small dogs?

You would probably be surprised at how quickly people can become educated. Our problems up here are nothing compared to the US.

But thanks to dog forums, facebook, etc. the word is getting out. These BYB's simply contribute to pet overpopulation, and the animals pay in the end by dying in shelters. Some people are idiots, granted, and you can't fix stupid. But you can strive to show the average JoeQ why it is a bad decision.

A pet store just makes it easy to impulse buy. And return it after Christmas. Hopefully, not just dump it somewhere. I wonder what the pet stores do with those? Not only that, the simple act of the pet store buying puppies from these BYB's and/or mills, is just keeping them in business.

It's hard to turn away from a cute puppy, but remember, there will just be another created to take it's place if you succumb.

It would make sense to me to require all dog breeders to carry a form of business license and enforce certain regulations. The city already looks online for businesses advertising under a name that's not registered with the city so it wouldn't be much more trouble for them to look into dog breeding as a business as well. Looking currently on kijiji, with the number of puppies for sale is astonishing and most are clearly BYB.

I did my best to get my pup from a "reputable" breeder but it's pretty hard to tell so having better regulations is something everyone can benefit from. Signed the petition in person during dog class :biggrin:

Dissappointing Phelps that you would be lead but such tactics "all pet stores are bad" I hope in the future PETA doesn't turn their attention to the fish hobby.

Thanks for the advice champ. If you re-read my post you would know that I am not ready for one at this time. For the past 7 years I have had my heart set on one and yes I know about issues with the dog.

Aquattro - I am not used to small shops. where I used to work, dogs weren't around long enough for any employee to get attached to. I guess in a smaller shop or a town this would not be the case. But I do agree that they should not be in those boxes for long periods of time. Even some larger shops have incorporated a "play room."

Haha I don't think that at all, I don't agree with the petition on all levels, it's not perfect but IMO better than doing nothing.

I did read it. I was only making sure, trying to save you heartbreak my friend.

Imagine there being a problem with wild caught fish so a petition is put out that keeping any fish be banned in the City of Calgary. Is it better to sign this petition or do nothing. I would suggest in regards to such a petition the answer is to do nothing with the petition and send your Councillor some better suggestions.

I don't think this involves you. This petition is for Calgary. :lol:

Calgary this week, Winnipeg last week, when exactly should I put forward the actual truth?

Exactly! Why are the pet retail stores being targeted instead of introducing tigher legislation to regulate dog sales?

Again, tighter regulations.

Is there proof that the dogs are coming from a mill or a less than desireable BYB?

This was proposed in the City of Vernon (BC) a year ago. This is the slippery slope that I keep referring to. Marine ornamentals are an easy target...much easier than people believe.

mmmmm slightly different I think but if an obvious problem came up relating to wild caught fish causing a problem like overpopulation or even ocean depletion and a petition was issued to not ban all wild caught fish but introduce some better regulation then yeah I'd sign. The petition in question by no means has the goal to completely bans puppies. It's major goal is to prevent BYB and online sales from such. Pet stores will do just fine working with rescues and reputable breeders, most probably do already.

sorry my first comment I made was a bit arrogant on my part. But I see where you are coming from. People should know about common issues with dogs. Like boston's and bulldogs with respiratory issues which can be a costly vet bill.

The petition we are discussing from a few pages back states "Enact a Municipal bylaw prohibiting the sale of companion animals(ie dogs and cats) on all public and commercial properties" How that is not stopping reputable Pet Stores is beyond me.

There is no difference. It's a ban.

BTW...there is a problem with ocean depletion and habitat degredation with the collection of some ornamentals.

Simple:
No reason an "adoption event" can't be on going. A pet store will likely be able to get permanent exemption by continuously working with rescue organizations. Further down the road I would expect to see better regulation on breeders which will also allow pet stores to work with breeders as well.

Not really... Will you still be able to get a dog?

And yes but there are regulations all ready in place, you can't just go to the ocean and start harvesting and selling livestock, not legally anyway.

You really believe the goal would be better regulation and would have an exemtion for Pet Stores? Come on already. A more realistic goal of this campaign would be to increase the ban on pets other than dogs and cats which could eventually lead to this industry.

Yeap! The goal is clearly to prevent BYB and overpopulation not put pet stores out of business.

Then why not put that right there in the petition and leave out the commercial business part and I would bet that most people in the Pet Industry would be right behind you. And forget the ban part, put in restrictions and guidelines which reputatable Pet Stores already follow.

Hey Phelps here is the post that started this debate. They are clearly not out to ban puppy sale at Pet Stores!!!!