Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board

Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/index.php)

- Reef (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - overflow question (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=51653)

Also a little more info for you, a 1/3 HP pump doesn't mean it uses 250W, actually a 1/6 HP centrifugal style pump will use about 275W on average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuckgod420 (Post 410356)

Where the hell did that name come from anyway?

username of the guy on RC who popularized it

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphelps (Post 410389)

Easy buddy we're all friends here, but if you want to be a jerk you don't know how to calculate head pressure.

you've got 6 feet of vertical height and I'll assume 1 foot of horizontal. On top of that you've got 4 90s and again I'll also assume a ball valve. Easiest way to calculate head pressure is to use a calculator like the one on RC. Head pressure is also directly related to flow rate so for an example if you run a sequence 2400 (similar to snapper) in your situation (with 1.5" piping) as described you get 6.81 feet of head pressure and 1231gph but if you run a larger pump in the same situation you'll get upwards of 9.8 feet of head pressure. 1 foot per 90 is not accurate.

Unfortunately such an elementary calculator doesn't properly allow for multiple branch calculations however consider this: Yes if you branch the flow to two equal lines you split the flow but your head pressure will decrease. In fact it will decrease for two reasons, lower flow and double the cross sectional area of the pipe. Therefore you can trick such a calculator to give a good estimate. For example, let's assume two pipes from a 2500gph pump, each 1.5" and both have vertical distance of 6 feet and 1 foot horizontal with 4 90s a piece. We can trick the calculator to give us an estimate, remember this is an estimate, you don't want me to do the real thing, trust me :lol:. So use the same pump but we'll assume two 1.5" pipes are pretty close to one 2" pipe (which they are, considering the extra pipe friction from the two 1.5" pipes). We still only have 6 feet of actual head but we'll add the extra 6 feet into the horizontal distance to account for friction loss.
So this is what we got:
Pipe size: 2" (actually two 1.5" lines)
Vertical: 6 feet
Horizontal: 8 feet
90s: 8
Ball valves: 2

Total head pressure: 6.53 feet of head and 1305 gph.

Wow you gained flow, that snapper is looking pretty good, but keep in mind a super rough estimate here, but in such a circumstance you could actually gain "total" flow and reduce head pressure by branching a line to another tank.

Also I thought I'd point out another problem, you seemed to have bought a pump you know nothing about except that it came off a jacuzzi and uses too much power. What about flow rate? Doesn't sound like research to me.

I once met a guy who has kept saltwater tanks for 20+ years but could still not figure out how to keep any corals alive other than mushrooms. Also as an engineer I have to deal with many clients who have issues using some of our products, whenever there's a problem on the clients side the first thing they say is "I've been doing this for so many years, I can't be wrong" but they always are :wink:

you wanna talk about being a jerk... I'm not trying to push my opinion down anyones throat.
I've done more research than you need to know....not a pump thread, this was about a herbie.

I simply responded to myka in the same tone I got from her post about head pressure.

Are you to tell me now that I dont know how to keep a reef tank? I happen to have a beautiful reef in my home that many of these other canreefers have seen. Were talking about a pump here. And whos to say that maybe your not the one wrong here?

I never asked for your(or anyones) opinion about the pump I have in mind for the job....this was a herbie question thread.

Haha, you're welcome :biggrin: just trying to help. Enjoy the new pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canuckgod420 (Post 410347)

Explain your theory on the head pressure please, it would be nice to know for sure.
The way I see it, if I tee off a pump(any pump) the flow coming from either end of the tee would be half of what the flow is straight from the pump...correct?

You did ask this question did you not?

He gave you the correct answer and some free advice, why the hostility?

What is so secret about an OEM pump, I am going to guess that this is an Emerson replacement.

The so called hostility stems from the jerk comment he made at the beginning of the post....I was merely responding to mykas post.

Theres nothing secret about the pump...its just not what the thread was about, and I have no interest in explaining anything more about the pump,and you are incorrect on the emerson replacement? what ever that means.

Never did I say I wasnt grateful for the head pressure calculation. I still have a hard time believing all that when I see how much loss I get from the pumps I run right now....for example....quiet one 4000HH claims 800GPH @ 6'....but on my return to my tank after 6' up and 2 elbows the flow is minimal. I guarantee I am not even getting 400GPH right now.

In order to get the best you can from any pump you need to maximize pipe diameters, every little helps, sometimes seeing is believing and unless you have done testing it is hard to believe, try running your return pump into a container and based on time and gallons do the math.

Here is what is hard to believe.

Since the birth of Christ, a Trillion seconds have not yet passed, ... do the math.

The herbie is not a syphon and you will not drain more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr OM (Post 410459)

Here is what is hard to believe.

Since the birth of Christ, a Trillion seconds have not yet passed, ... do the math.

Every year 100,000,000 sharks are killed by man :surprise:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack (Post 410530)

The herbie is not a syphon and you will not drain more.

like I said before it's about head pressure. Herbie will flow more

Have you used one?

I have, it won't drain more.

yes I have. Comparing a standard standpipe to a Herbie with the same bulkhead size the Herbie will typically flow more. For example if your overflow is about 2 feet tall and you run a Herbie you have 2 feet of head pressure on top of your drain input to help push more flow in. With a standpipe you don't have this. Just like running a pump at zero head compared to 2 feet of head, but it works in an opposite fashion with a drain, more head pressure will mean more flow.

Of course I say typically because for this to work you have to have the primary drain located at the bottom of the overflow and not have any kind of extension tube, otherwise you don't have the head pressure to push more flow. To demonstrate try an experiment, fill an old tall container will water and punch a small hole in the side near the bottom and you'll see a jet of water spray out. You'll notice as the water level decreases, which reduces the pressure at the hole, the water jet will not spray as far.

You can also note that the primary reasoning for a Herbie is noise reduction not increased flow. The idea is the system can take a large amount of flow and drain it whisper quiet.

Anyone notice when I started this thread the last thing I said was "this should be fun"....

Sweet pump action

Hi Man,
I've actually seen this pump, it looks just like a reeflow snapper, except diferent colours. And furthermore, if you think about having a bath, then sometimes you use epsom salts and bath oils and crap like that. So the seals are going to be resistant to all of the stuff that's floating in our water! And seriously, who cares about the carbon footprint of the pump! We get hydro-electric power out here!! It just means you pay more for the power consumption!!!
Cheers-Ken

I tend to believe Jeff from J+L, I've taken all of his advice so far, that is except for yours:mrgreen: