Oh I know! That test is ridiculous to read for me too.

What you say about testing makes total sense. I guess as you get the ZEO going and the tank stabilizes, the less you need to test. The weekly water changes that ZEO requires must help big time with keeping everything stable as well.

I am going to try to switch to RBS I think. Seems to be the best way to go.

GSP, is there any way you could give me a rough price breakdown of what it has cost you to start zeo up to this point. Im thinking about starting it, but am getting tired of spending money on "the next great step in reefing". As well I can only get to my tank every second day as it is at my other house. do you think this is something that would have to be constantly monitered, or at least watched very close for the first couple days or weeks? Thanks.

Yes, if the aquarist is primarily an SPS keeper...of which you are, so test away :smile:! I keep mostly LPS and softies, and therefore, am not concerned about K. I have the kit, but only intend to test occassionally for curiousity sake more than anything else.
For me, I'm more concerned with, NO3; PO4; Ca; Mg and Alk. I'm seriously considering getting Pinpoint monitors for the NO3 and Ca, and a Hanna photometer for the PO4. I know I cheat on my NO3 tests and want to get away from that. I never want to believe the reading I get when the vial is set directly on the colour chart. I always "hover" the vial over the colour chart. Not good. I'm not inclined to cheat as much with the PO4 tests, but I still having difficulty deciding between 0.05 and 0.1. Having the Hanna tell me what it is would be nice. And I like the idea of having a Ca reading at a glance. I haven't seen monitors for Mg and Alk, so I'm assuming there isn't, or if there is...they must cost an arm and a leg. The Mg test is so dead bone easy that I probably wouldn't get a monitor for that anyway, but given the confusion on different Alk readings lately, it'd be nice to have a monitor for that.

Edit: I just read the Pinpoint instructions for the Ca monitor. The thing can't be run continuosly with the probe submerged. Have to calibrate before each use. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth. Sticking with the Ca test kit.

Edit 2: Humpf. The NO3 monitor is along the same lines. I think I'll go ahead with this one, though, given my cheating tendencies with this test :redface:.

Cheers,

Yeah sure.

I have actually been looking at ZEOvit for a while but thought it was too expensive until the Vertex reactors came along. I bought the Vertex Starter Package from J&L which has the reactor, zeolites and three basics. Everything you need to start. So $200 to start (depending on your tank size though).

It also depends if you already have all the test kits you will need. I would say most people don't have the potassium kit and you NEED it. That was around $40. I also bought the Potassium supplement which was around $40.

I would say for me to start its been about $300.

It will get more expensive BUT all over a few months or so. I am told I will not even be able to use most of the other additives until month 3 or so. So it will add up but over time.

I would say from what I have learned so far, its really worth it if your committed and stay on track. Ie. Weekly water changes and regular testing to keep all levels correct. To me, the results are second to none.

Makes sense. How are you finding the results of ZEO with softies? I have heard such mixed reviews.

I agree about the monitors. I want to get the NO3 one for sure. I also want to get the Hanna Phosphate eventually too. Just have to curb the spending for now after buying ZEO stuff, bulbs, corals, test kits...and now a Wavebox. Man I don't want to think about the tank right now.

Not too much new in the way of ZEO stuff but I added a Wavebox to the tank tonight...got a little over excited though and actually got the waves splashing out of the tank :surprise:

This thing rocks. I am happy I chose it over the vortechs. It really doesn't bother me in the tank like I thought it would. Partly cause it so wicked and partly cause it matches the black of the stand, canopy, silicone, ect. and just kind of blends in.

I have noticed the tangs already love to swim in the middle of the tank where they can kind of just let themselves go and hover :D

Oh and it doesn't make the overflow loud at all like I thought it may. Still dead quiet. VERY happy about that.

I don't mean to hijack your thread into a discussion on test kits, but I got the Pinpoint NO3 monitor and thought I would mention the results I got. As I mentioned, I've been testing with a Salifert kit, but tend to "cheat" by hovering the sample over the colour chart, rather than setting it right on the paper. My "hover" readings I figured to be 10ppm for both my tanks, but figured if I did the test correctly, my NO3 is probably more like 25. Well, to my surprise, my Reef tank tested at 10 and my FOWLR tested at 12ppm with the Pinpoint. Needless to say, I'm very happy about this :biggrin:.

Anyway,...that's all. Back to you.

Not a hijack at all :) There is really not much going on with my tank right now. I added about four new sps pieces in the past week but as of now, most of them are under sand. The wavebox has really upset things. Actually polyp extension was better as soon as I added the wavebox but man the sand in the tank won't sit still. Constant storms :(

Wavebox + Shallow tank = Not the best idea out there

I am glad you posted about this. So...do you know how accurate the monitors are? I assume they are quite accurate (at least enough for what we need them for) but I am curious. I would love to pick one up. Did you find it much easier and more convenient than regular testing?

EDIT: Found info saying the accuracy is 1 ppm...so much more accurate than testing with colors and little vials.

The nitrate monitor is quite accurate, but extremely fussy to operate. It isn't like a pH monitor where you can just leave the probe in the water...you have to calibrate the probe before each test.

Well, it was a little cumbersome the first go around, but shouldn't take long to get used to. I guess the thing is...it needs to be calibrated each time, so in that respect I would say it's a tad more work.

Cheers,

Yeah, having corals respond well to an environment that's not completely devoid of nutrients isn't uncommon. However, like you said, you don't want to see where it could go if things get out of hand... and that's why people use Zeo, especially when they have a heavy fish load. Like you do :lol:

Nice tank by the way.

Yeah its just one of those things...you don't want to mess with whats working well but at the same time, you know its not going to work well long term :)

I have another big fish coming in the next day or two and thats really going to put this tank over the top for bioload. I do have a bigger tank to upgrade to as soon as the time comes but I want to hold off on that until I move in a year or so...my place is just too small. For now the fish seem to be happy and have enough room. If that changes anytime soon though, I will either have the custom tank I want made or set up my 240. If we decide to stay in this condo longer than expected (and might because if we sell now, we loose big time with the market down...we bought high :rolleyes: ) then I am going to have a custom tank build around 7'x30"wide and 16" tall. So gives the fish lots of room but isn't massive like my 240. I had the 240 in my place when I bought it and it was ridiculous. If I were a bachelor, the thing would already be set up but if I set it up in our small condo, I may end up a bachelor :D Its 8'x2'x2'

New fish BTW is an Aussie Harlequin Tusk. I have been waiting for a nice looking one for a while now and J&L had two gorgeous ones come in yesterday. I would have taken one right there on the spot but they were not even acclimated fully yet. Although thinking of it now, maybe it would have been less stress to just acclimate it straight to my tank instead of going to two new tanks in a matter of days...oh well, they are tough fish, I am sure he will be fine.

Probably not the best time to be adding fish as I am just starting ZEO but we'll see.

I should get some before pics of my corals today so we can see what ZEO does for my tank. Problem right now is that there is still quite the sand storm from the new wavebox :(

I have had to clean the wavebox out twice a day to make sure sand does not get stuck in the pump and cause the controller to shut it down and sound the VERY annoying alarm.

Maybe I should add a layer of a coarser sand? Any suggestions? Or just let it be and eventually the sand will settle...

Some pictures. Just want to document something pre-ZEOvit. I am pretty happy with color of about half my sps and the other half are starting to color up (most were brown when I got them). My gorgonians are another story...my nice purple one keeps getting brighter but all the yellow ones I have are now brown. Not sure if ZEO will do anything there.

I am not going to document EVERY coral in the tank but here are a few I will keep taking pics of along the way:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ054.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ050.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ056.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ058.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ062.jpg

Left half of the tank where all the sps are...under that island in the middle is where the school of scissor gobies sleep and hang out. I guess they were not up yet :)

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ015.jpg

So I have officially started ZEO :D We'll see what the next few weeks brings but I am super excited to see how this goes.

The new guy! I am super excited about this addition. Its been a long time that I have been looking. It seems they either come up when I don't have almost $200 to drop on a fish or they sell before I get to the store.

Obviously by the coloration, you can see its the Australian species.

Acclimation:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ088.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ092.jpg

beautiful fish. i want. give it to me.

LOL...I think thats exactly how I asked for it in J&L :D

I was hoping they were not going to be like "Nice money, I want, give it to me" though...

One of the easiest fish to acclimate and literally spent NO time hiding once going into the display. He went straight to exploring and mingling with the other fish. Didn't expect any aggression and not even the slightest bad look towards him from the other fish. But can you blame them??? He looks so bad a$$! I wouldn't mess with a fish like that. He is a perfect size for the tank I think too. Just a bit smaller than the Hippo, exact same size as the Naso and Rabbitfish. His colors make my corals look dull!

Going to need to upgrade real soon though now. Probably this year...

That reminds me. I was at my parents yesterday and went to the basement to see my 240. I freaked. I have yet to ever fill the thing up except for a leak test and its scratched! I questioned my mom and apparently a few boxes were beside it. Jeez...boxes scratched the tank? No way I want to deal with acrylic I don't think. So that one is out. My stepdad is most likely going to buy it for his rays and Arowanas. I also have a 180 in their basement but I hate 180's. Just aesthetically. I prefer shallow and long tanks. The 240 is the same as the 180 in height but because its 8' long, it looks way shorter.

I am going to try to get a 72" or 84" x 30" wide and 18" tall tank built.

Actually I will get the glass cut and have my step dad build it with me.

Anyone know a good place for big pieces of glass?

Added some new sand the other day...ewwww!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ134.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ147.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ093.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ154.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ155.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ158.jpg

Couple more corals I want to keep track of.

This one came to me in a trade very brown and dead on one side. The dead side is living again and the color is VERY slowly coming back. Looks like it may end up purple? What do you think? I have a feeling its going to be nice...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ079.jpg

This is a large Long Tentacle Plate that seems to be happy. Not a great pic though, its much brighter in person. Its the only LPS I have in the tank so interesting to see how it responds to ZEOvit.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ075.jpg

What about me?!? I was trying to get a good shot of my clowns in the mushrooms they are hosting but everytime I get the camera out, the big boys crowd around. I liked this one though...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ082.jpg

And the real problem child of the tank. This Horn coral came to me very bright and has faded the past few months. It used to be bright green!

Any ideas? Someone told me I had it under too much light. It was directly under one of the 400 watt halides. I have since moved it. We'll see.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...ith/ZZZ071.jpg

Thinking of the Zeo system but it sounds like to much work to me. The rocks need to be cleaned twice a day is that correct? I understand the 3 hours on 3 hours off part, for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria... easy peasy right?? Once things are established how often should you take measurments of everyting??? I'm trying to face up to the reality of how I do things and I don't want to get in over my head.

Douglas

It's really not that bad Doug. I had the same hesitations (note - I don't currently run Zeovit, but the reason isn't that it was too much work - and I plan for my new tank to be Zeovit from day 1, whenever it gets water in it that is). But anyhow, you feed your fish everyday right? You at least check on them once a day. Now add to that routine a couple pumps on a reactor handle (and .. it sounds silly but it's kind of fun) and maybe a little drip drip here or a drip drip there with some additives, and hey presto, you're done. :)

No the rocks do not need to be cleaned daily. You simply aggitate them by pumping a handle up and down on the reactor once a day.

Also, a reactor is prefered but not required. Many people passively run the zeovit in a bag in their sump. Which is also agitated manually once a day.

So for all you experienced ZEO user out there, I have a question.

I am upgrading tanks. I have a 200G coming and will moving everything over. So now my reactor is too small...technically. Will it still be possible to use the 1.5L reactor or do I need to upgrade to a 3L. If it means an upgrade then I think this will already be the end of the road for my ZEO experiment. I would go back to a huge refugium instead. I just can't justify paying a bunch of money again for a new reactor.

Just curious.

Well IMO you should be OK. There are a lot of Zeo Users that have larger than 300G tanks and the largest reactor is 3L so you must be able to go a bit lower in volume

J

KZ makes 4L & 6L models as well.

Well I have to stick to my 1.5L unit...hopefully it will still keep up with a 200G tank. Actually more like 250G total water volume. Might be really pushing it but I would imagine its still got to be somewhat effective. Up the flow rate and add more zeolites over time I would assume. The "pros" over at the ZEO forum will know for sure what to do :D

You could always just run the extra 1L of zeolite passively in your sump. Just put it were there is some flow and knead it twice a day by hand.

Also Remember it's NET water volume. You have to subtract all your sand rock and odds are your sump isn't full

J

Yeah the sump is 120ish gallon tank (my current display is going to be the sump), so I estimate with it half or 2/3 full and with rock, sand, ect. the NET will still be about 250 easily. I believe the new display is 203G to be exact.

Well anyways, its a much bigger water volume. All I can do is try it out I guess.

Right...this may work too. I have to knead the carbon already, so wouldn't hurt to just do some zeolites as well.

So how quickly did you guys see the results of ZEO?

I am trying to figure out if its coincidence or ZEO but a few of my "mystery" frags that I traded or bought as ugly brown things are suddenly getting color back and quick. Seems to quick to be the ZEO though.

One of them apparently is a Green Slimer. I got a few nice Green Slimer frags from a member here and now one of my brown colonies is turning out to be the same coral. I don't even remember where I got it but man it was ugly.

Just seems that the corals colors are getting very nice the past few days.

Only downside is that I seem to also be getting some cyano on my sandbed. I heard this can happen though and will pass. I did add some new sand though a few nights ago, so that probably didn't help.

I am pretty sure the ZEO is already doing quite a bit. I have really noticed a huge difference in color already. Too much to be coincidence. I will take some pics tomorrow.

My fear now is how the transfer to the new tank will effect things.

Any advice for how I should do this? I have about 3 weeks until the new tank gets here but I am getting nervous now. I think the new tank will be sumpless for a few days while I get everything moved over and plumbed. Does a few days without ZEO make a big difference?

I guess this will actually become a build thread too with the new tank and all.

Its around 200G...72"x30"wide and 22" high. Sump as I said will be my current display (around 120G) and I will use my 75G sump as a water change tank. ATO will be the same garbage can. Most of the other equipment will be the same. Lighting will still be dual 400 watts...switching to 20K though. Currently I have 4x80watt T5's as well (2 actinic and 2 11K bulbs) and will be adding another 2 80 watt T5's I think. I will be adding about 100 lbs. more LR.

The tank is going against the wall across from the current tanks spot and the stand is being built to make it look like an in wall tank. Except that I doubt the canopy will go all the way to the ceiling since its 14' tall :D

So all in all, I have been pretty happy with ZEO so far. I think it has done a lot for the corals.

I have to say though, the cyano that has come with it, is making me not even want to look at the tank anymore :)

Its ridiculous. Starting to grow on rocks too now, not just the sand bed. I had heard of this happening when starting ZEO but I was told as long as you go slow, your fine. Well I went very slow, waiting until levels were right, dosing less than what I was recommended, ect. but still have a crazy amount of cyano.

And some of the brown stringy stuff. Can't remember the names. I had been lucky enough over the years not to have to deal with bacterial issues like this.

Any ideas?

I started slow with zeo as well and I have cyano. I just can't get rid of it. Damned stuff. Oh well, I just add it to the various other things that have plagued my tank over the years.

\

ZeoZyme?

What is your current ZeoStart dosage? and what is your Net water volume?
are you adding amino acid and/or coral vitalizer

J