Originally Posted by fragalot (Post 273842)

Hi,

Can tank run without a skimmer? Of course. With well knowladge, lightly loaded, lightly feeding, lots of biological filtration and keep close eye on your tank. It can be done very well.

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 273898)

Show me a tank that has run skimmerless for 5 years or more without any kind of overhaul, without any new rock, and without any incident of nutrient buildup, and suddenly the playing field changes a little.

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 273898)

Well, MY point is (and always was if you "read my posts carefully" see? two can play at this game :p ) is that skimmerless is certainly an option, because it's not about what equipment you have, but what your nutrient import/export balance is all about. It's a simple producer/consumer scenario. If less goes in, there's less to accumulate. If more goes in, you need to take more out. The goal is equilibrium. A skimmer is but one tool in the arsenal for this goal. There are several others.

I'm sorry but I guess what bothering me here is that over the years I've heard this argument again and again where someone takes a stand and seems to implicate that we should all throw our skimmers away "because they don't use it, and they have success." To turn things around on you a bit, it's the same thing as saying "Because *I* use a skimmer and have success, everyone who doesn't have one should go out and buy one" and that's the very sentiment to which you seem to be objecting. ;) Never at once disputed success isn't possible, but MY point is that there is value in a properly tuned, good design skimmer.

(True, there are plenty of skimmers out there that may as well not be running for all the good that they do. So there may be some instances where indeed there's no difference to the system whether the skimmer is there or not.)

There was another user on Canreef a few years ago who used to argue this point as well, but what was never advertised was that his tanks were never more than a year old AND he used things like chemical resins. Show me a tank that has run skimmerless for 5 years or more without any kind of overhaul, without any new rock, and without any incident of nutrient buildup, and suddenly the playing field changes a little. Not saying it's not done, it most certainly IS done, but these people have a tank maintenance regime that very likely compensates for the function that a skimmer would otherwise provide.

Ultimately, like with any tool, it serves a function, but of course you should only use that tool if the function it provides is something you beleive has value to you. This applies to anything, be it skimmers, UV, halides, .. whatever.

Peace out. :)

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 273951)

Excellent post Tony. This brings back the years of heated discussions on another board. :lol: Nothing wrong with running skimmerless, as long as other nutrient export methods are used and then "mentioned", as Daniel did, when saying I run skimmerless, however many seem to forget that part.

Marie, thats an awesome pic. Was that Eric,s tank before the mishap?

Originally Posted by Voxboy (Post 280944)

I have been running my system for a little over a year. I do 25% water changes every two weeks. My system is sumpless as well. I AM however going to be adding a skimmer. My biggest fear I guess is an overall system crash....don't know why. My fish are starting to get large and when I see them poop I am amazed how much bigger thier dumps are getting. I will be adding a hang on so Idon't think it will make a big difference either way...maybe help a little. Anyone have a hang on skimmer they want to sell???

http://www.freewebs.com/voxboy/Amp/120%20gallon.JPG

Originally Posted by Delphinus (Post 273898)

Well, MY point is (and always was if you "read my posts carefully" see? two can play at this game :p ) is that skimmerless is certainly an option, because it's not about what equipment you have, but what your nutrient import/export balance is all about. It's a simple producer/consumer scenario. If less goes in, there's less to accumulate. If more goes in, you need to take more out. The goal is equilibrium. A skimmer is but one tool in the arsenal for this goal. There are several others.

I'm sorry but I guess what bothering me here is that over the years I've heard this argument again and again where someone takes a stand and seems to implicate that we should all throw our skimmers away "because they don't use it, and they have success." To turn things around on you a bit, it's the same thing as saying "Because *I* use a skimmer and have success, everyone who doesn't have one should go out and buy one" and that's the very sentiment to which you seem to be objecting. ;) Never at once disputed success isn't possible, but MY point is that there is value in a properly tuned, good design skimmer.

Originally Posted by ron101 (Post 281073)

One variable that I do think is often overlooked is the marketing from the industry. As with most others, consumption is encouraged to increase profit and more/bigger is better (and more expensive). Quality skimmers are expensive in an already expensive hobby.

If I had to set up a new system I would definitely look at avoiding purchasing a skimmer if at all possible by keeping the bioload reasonable and choosing corals that thrive at moderate or higher nutrient levels (ie no sps). This would reduce cost and reduce the possibility of 'equipment overload.'

Originally Posted by yvr75 (Post 264597)

Thanks for your positive comments.
I have never used a skimmer. The first tank I set up was a 29 gallon in December 2006. Then I decided that I wanted a bigger tank and upgraded to a 50 gallon.

Both tanks have been running without a skimmer since day 1. The tank get some Diatoms but I believe this is the result of using tap water. Yes, you are reading well. I have used tap water since day one and so far no problems. I use IO salt and don't add any additives, just do weekly water changes. I have been thinking about buying a Deltec 600 (skimmer) just in case it is needed.

Here the tank specs:

50 gallon tank
2X150 HQI + 2X39 T5
1 Hydor Koralia #2
100 watt heater

That's all the equipment that I have been using since I set up this tank.
Let me know if you have any more questions.

Originally Posted by Voxboy (Post 280944)

I have been running my system for a little over a year. I do 25% water changes every two weeks. My system is sumpless as well. I AM however going to be adding a skimmer. My biggest fear I guess is an overall system crash....don't know why. My fish are starting to get large and when I see them poop I am amazed how much bigger thier dumps are getting. I will be adding a hang on so Idon't think it will make a big difference either way...maybe help a little. Anyone have a hang on skimmer they want to sell???

http://www.freewebs.com/voxboy/Amp/120%20gallon.JPG

Originally Posted by TeknoPunk (Post 281678)

Similar to me. I have never used a skimmer and haven't had any problems either. I do have one but it is not in use... all I have it doing is helping circulate the water. my tank has been running for a year now.

to be honest I would use my skimmer for what it is suppossed to be used for but I can't figure out how to get it to work properly :redface:

Originally Posted by yvr75 (Post 281730)

Any pics of your tank?

Originally Posted by Voxboy (Post 281916)

Awesome tank techno. I love your wrasses as well...they get along OK with each other?