Very good system Chin. I guess I don't trust myself enough to add a perscribed dose of something without measureing again. I'm wrong too often. :)

I'm getting 7.4dKH on the batch of Ocean Pure Pro that is in the mixer right now. I also checked the salinity, and I'm a bit low. I assume that if I add additional salt, I'll get some rise in this number.

It's made me realize that I can't just put 50 gallons of water and 1 bag of salt and expect the salinity to be correct. I never accurately calibrated the 50 gallon mark on my mixer....maybe it's not exactly right.

reply
 

Maybe, but I didn't get any rise when I did my change last weekend after I corrected my salinity. It still read 7.4.

So if IO salt is that much out on the levels we test for, we can only assume the trace elements we don't test for are out as well! Even though I'm not having any problems, I think I'll try some TMP next time. What is everyone getting for reading with Reef Crystals? This is supposed to be their "better" salt.

Thanks for the kind words Chin.

This is my theory:

You cannot just use dehydrated seawater to make sea-salt, as it goes through a chemical change when it dries that is not reversible, so it has to be synthetic.

Some companies use stuff that dissolves very fast and is proven to work fairly well, like IO. In fact I can have a full 45 gallons of water made up (not including time to make the RO/DI water) in 1/2 hour, and it is clear! That includes adding the magnesium and calcium.

Other companies try to get higher levels of magnesium and calcium but then it makes the whole thing harder to dissolve and much more expensive. Of course salt making companies would never introduce a salt that required 2 or 3 steps to make, even if that is a better procedure, which I believe it is.

I have read too many stories of the "reef" salts causing problems long term. Although there have been a few complaints from IO, for the most part there are many fantastic reef tanks that use it w/o problems.

So, what if a 2 or 3 step process is better? What does it cost? How easy is it?

Well I buy a couple of skids of IO every year for the locals and I test one pail for alk, cal, and mag. I have always come up with around 10, 350, 1180.

That is the only testing I have done for the last 5 years on my salt, once a year! I mix up my water 45 gallons at a time. I use 6 teaspoons of calcium and about 350 ml of magnesium that I mix into the water before adding salt. Then the next day (or an hour later, whatever, as long as it is mixed, FWIW I use 2 large submersible pumps to mix and heat my water so it goes really fast!) I add the salt. It literally takes me less then 45 seconds to add the magnesium and calcium, and it costs about $2 a pail!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have the best tank around, but I am close. I get about 3 lbs of growth a month out of my SPS and clams in my 250.

Take it for what it is worth, but to me the above procedure just makes sense. I had to bang my head in the wall many times to get it all figured out when I was first getting into reefing, but now it is super easy!

What about strontium and iodine, have you tested for those? It's still up in the air how important these are, but it's a good idea to keep everything as close to NSW as possible IMO.

3 lbs of growth?
 

OK Ben I need to ask how you measure 3 lbs of growth in a month?
And interesting thing about testing the pallet of salt only once to get the baseline readings. Do you check for markings on the buckets to ensure they are the same batch? If so, what markings do you look for for the batch number?

And I do agree that there have been so many great tanks in the past and present that used IO, I have to wonder if the comparisons of salt brands becomes just a comparison of numbers game based on the analysis on a batch of salt that was available at that time to the persons conducting the analysis. Its interesting that I've have even seen these numbers deviate on different analysis with the same brands of salt but yet we will base so much of our decisions on these analysis.
Personally i feel that consistency is the key regardless of what salts you use. If you are consistent with the Ca/Mg/Alk in your new water to match the current levels in your tank, you can't go wrong. Meanwhile take more time to work on getting the Ca/Mg/Alk in your whole tank up to the levels you wish to maintain instead of spending time on that small batch of saltwater which is only 10-15% of your total volume. And when you mix in the new saltwater, the numbers are diluted 85-90% of the difference.

First off I'm very happy to see that this topic has gotten so much attension. Good to see some descusion on the board.

Chin Can't agree with you more. That is the main reason I started this thread, is because of the massive fluctuations I was finding in my current salt. I will be quite gun shy for a while and don't think I will be able to only test my salt once a year. I also do not buy salt in such a large quanaty to ensure I get one batch number that lasts a whole year.
I have also been reading about certain fillers that can be used in Salt, like Borate, to boost ALK but Borate is not used by corals so it creates a difficiency in ALK. I personally have no way of measureing for such chemicals so it makes it hard to trust any salt.

J

Just want to confirm.....the 350 ml of Mg.....is that a dry measure?......or do you mean grams?

Thanx much,

salt poll
 

IMO, there are way too many choices to choose from and all it does is add to the confusion. I like to stick to 4 basic, yet important criterias when choosing a salt brand.

1. cal,alk,meg levels
2. consistantancy
3. price
4. availability

1 - not that important as most are in managable range of 360 - 400ppm +, levels can easily and cheaply be modified with Ca reactor or additives, so I have no worries here
2 - I believe this is the most important criteria, whether it's lacking or not of any substances, it must be consistant from one bucket to the next. Most brands are pretty good most of the time. Brands like Tropic Marin wins here.
3 - There has to be a reason why some brands stick out as been the cheapest or most expensive. Lacking or too much of an ingredient(s) or processing precedure. I really don't know why OceanPure and TropicMarin prices are so different.
4 - has to be available upon request, shouldn't have to pre-order or pay extras for bringing it in.

So by following these step, I've made it easier for me to determine which is the most economical, most often available, and doesn't require alot of adjustment. Here's an example:

I run a large calcium reactor which takes care of the 3 levels in criteria #1.
I test every new batch of salt water that I make before adding to the tank, so if it's low on something I just use additives to boost it first and leave the rest to the Ca reactor. I don't use the expensive salt that are $60+ per/bucket because I don't need to, it's pointless. My brand of choice has been InstantOcean because it's cheap, readily available, has been consistant for me in the past 5 years. There are few brands in the same price range, but none that have been around for as long, so I go with what works. I am currently testing the new AquamedicReefSalt, it's readily available and is in the same price range as IO with higher levels of Ca, Alk, Meg.

I don't know for sure how much I use. It is a little over a cup and I have it marked out on a small container I use. So yes it is ml, but 350 is just from my best recolection.

So if I understand correctly you have your CA reactor pushing your levels up to compensate for your salt. Is that correct? That would mean your CA and ALK are in constant flux. From low to too high. Does this not ever cause massive problems when things finally become out of balance?

J

I was wondering If anyone tests their salt 24 hours later after they have used their salt mixing '' formulas '' or do they just dump er in ?

I did and do it sometimes, usually check pH and SG. If I'm starting a new bucket of salt I'll test Ca, Alk, Mg just to see if it's another one of those bad bunches but after the first batch of make up it's just pH and SG. I'll adjust Ca, Alk the same way for each batch of make up water. 1ml of Ca, 1ml of Alk and I add my Mg suppliment (Kent Tech M) once a week to my freshwater top off.

Doug

I use the Ca reactor to maintain the high demand levels that my sps tank consumes. Additives are used to raise it to the proper levels. Once achieved, the reactor just keep things constant and in balance.

So realistically, Ca/Alk/Meg concentration in salt is not really that critical as these are constant depleting elements that requires replenishing. It's great to have these levels high in any salt brand, but none will last long in a calcium hogging reef tank like a stoney coral environment.

Kent all the way, i used to use instant ocean but i find kent dissolves much easier and is finer, the only thing that isn't fun is that a Kent 200-gallon is $60 and a IO-160-gallon is only $40 so it's tempting but i'm still gonna have to stick with Kent :smile:

im useing ocean pure pro and i find the mag really high like 2.200ppm i've never dosed mag in my tank for that reason. is there anything better?

I use Instant Ocean, but I noticed that there are 5 paople on here that are claiming they use Sifto salt. I hope they are joking :)

I use Marine Environment salt...only available at Aquarium Illusions. I used IO for the first 15 months in my tank but I could never get control of my numbers and the salt just never disolved clean. After looking at a lot of other forums, like RC and RL and RAG, I found that most of those people swore by ME. Since making the change, I have to say, it's awesome stuff! A little more expensive but given what kind of dough we spend on this hobby, cheap salt seemed like a mistake.
Just my 2 cents.

I really like the kent sea salt :)
my last bucket I tried seachem and I returned 3/4 of the bucket I hated it.
was hard as a rock and even sitting in my mix for 48 hours it still wasn't desolved.

I use IO because it's the only brand sold in P.R. I'd like to try other brands but the freight kills me.

Salt
 

I started with I/O and am now trying T/m/Pro My tank is still in the early stages..5 months and counting but fish, corals and rock all seem to be looking good. I will be monitoring it regularly though and see whether the extra costs are wothwhile. Maybe I will go I/O in my predator tank and T/M in the reef..we'll see.:biggrin:

I just switched to TMP from using IO as well, it will be interesting to see if it is worth the extra money. If I have to pay more to dose less but have a healthy tank I'm game! If I cant tell a difference in coral/dosing, back to the cheap stuff.

This poll is 11 months old. The salt I use didn't exist when it started.

here is something that might be of interest I found this on 3Reef posted by another member.

http://reefsaltanalysis.googlepages....lysis_0208.pdf

Hope it works

i now use reefers best salt mixed with a little reef crystal.

with the new tank, I switched to seachem reef salt. I was tired of having to measure out 2 table spoons of this to get IO up to where it needed to be, 4 tablespoons of this, and 1 table spoon of this.
Honestly, to be able to dump a bunch of salt into some RODI water, check the salinity and know you're good to go is worth the extra 20 bucks a pail for me.

My Salt isn't even in the poll
 

I use a CORAL MARINE sea salt. i like it ts ozone safe contains a de chlorinator, ph buffer, 70 trace elements, ETC.

That salt analysis report is very interesting and worth whoile reading

I am ready to buy some additional salt when I head to the Coast later this week. The Kent I am using is giving me some pretty odd test results, I must have gotten some of that odd batch others had mentioned.

After reviewing the summary test report posted here earlier I am looking at purchasing either Seachem Reef or TMP Reef. Mostly to minimize the need to dose as DanG mentions.

Any additional thoughts on this issue?

I now use Reefers Best since it's become available to me. It's not on the pole so I couldn't vote.

I use Seachem also. I'm happy with it....but also couldn't vote as it's not there!

I've never understood why people always say this because:

I use Instant Ocean, although I've tried many others. I always go back to IO because I haven't seen a difference using "better" salt, and IO costs WAAAAY less, even after supplementing.

For every 5g of IO salt I dose:

15mL Kent Liquid Calcium (everyone knows liquid is expensive to supplement)
1 tsp SeaChem Magnesium
Alk is fine...

So, if my calculations are right I will go through 1 1/2 of the 16oz Liquid Calcium jugs (about $15), and about 1/2 of a 600g container of the SeaChem Magnesium (about $4). So that's a total cost of about $19 of additives for each 200g bucket of IO salt. So that makes each bucket of IO cost me about $59. Any other $59 bucket of salt you have to put additives into it too, so that makes it cost more.

SO...at $59 per 200g bucket of salt with additives included, IO is the cheapest. :D

PLUS, there are way cheaper ways to supplement the salt too... ;)

Some people get their additives much much cheaper, like $4 per pail of IO.:wink:

Do you have to dose your Seachem?

Here's a sticky thread on RC with the values for CA, Alk and Mg for the major brands.

Oh, I know!!! I was trying to make a point that the additives I use are expensive, and the cost of the bucket of IO after supplementing is STILL cheaper! ;)

Good point!

I edited my post...hehehe. :D

When I originally started my tanks I was using Instant Ocean, but switched after 1 bucket to AquaMedic Reef Salt.. But debating about starting my 75G with RBS.