Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

Sounds cool...too bad I am too busy to help.

Just wanted to tell you guys....umm...I was readjusting my reflectors and I noticed something unusual...I am getting shimmers from my fluroescent tubes ! [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Not quite as dramatic as MH...put there is a shimmering effect. Oh my...what have I started now....

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

I was thinking last night, and came up with a question.

I am planning on upgrading to 2x250W MH lamps sometime in the new year. I will be keeping my Icecap 660, but reducing the number of lamps from 4 to 2 to make room for the MH lamps.

With that in mind, would it be possible to overdrive 2x48" Actinic VHO lamps using all the leads from the Icecap 660?

That way I could reduce the number of lamps to make room for the MH, without reducing (as much) the amount of light from the remaining VHO lamps.

Ideas???

Overdriving lights.
 

Ok,

I asked a few questions abotu a spectum analyzer at BCIT and they have a few. I am going to go ask the the physics technicians if I can use one to make some measurements.

I'll keep ya posted..

Overdriving lights.
 

Hello Darren,

If there are anyone who knows about breaking light up for spectral analysis, it'll be the physics and astronomy people. I don't think the typical spectrum analyzer will do though. But the physicist may have something special.
Let us know what you find.

Titus

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

I think Titus is referring to a light spectrometer -- that's the one you want [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

VHO overdrive.................

Hmmm...I am not sure if you would get much benefit from that. The problem is that VHOs are already hot. Overdriving them further would make them hotter -- hence less efficient and more fragile (not to mention, not lasting as long). What were your plans with the "Super VHOs" and what type of MH (or MV) are you planning to get ?

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

I was going to ask my physics lab instructor today but we had a test so he wasn't to receptive to answering questions..

I'll ask mor in the next day or so.. He said they have waht I wanted. I described what I am looking for.

Breaking down individual wavelengths and showing intensities of each peak etc.. Told hime it was for the visible spectum only. ~400 to 700

Overdriving lights.
 

Would it not be the chemical composition of a lamp that makes up its spectrum?

The difference between a new lamps spectrum, and and old lamp is dramatic. We see this with the growth of algae when a lamp gets too old. The power does increase over the life of the lamp, but it's an increase in current. The variable is the lamp, more specifically what the electrical charge has done to the gases in the tube.

I don't forsee any change in the spectrum, only a change in amplitude.

just my humble theory,
Gord [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Overdriving lights.
 

Gord, there are several things going on here.. as a floresent gets old the color shifts as the gasses inside are being broken down to a cirtian degree.. also when you over drive it there is a chance the extra current will affect the gasses slightly different shifting the spectrum a tiny bit.

Steve

Overdriving lights.
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Hi,

VHO overdrive.................

Hmmm...I am not sure if you would get much benefit from that. The problem is that VHOs are already hot. Overdriving them further would make them hotter -- hence less efficient and more fragile (not to mention, not lasting as long). What were your plans with the "Super VHOs" and what type of MH (or MV) are you planning to get ?

- Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was just thinking that I would only be using 2 VHO Super-Actinics, but have an Icecap660 that is currently running 4 lamps. If I am only going to keep 2, why not overdrive them with the leads not being used? Just wondering, as it sounds much like the NO overdrive thing.

As for MH, I am probably going to go with dual 250W MH using Iwasaki 6500K lamps. I hear they have one of the highest PAR output and good overall spectrum (comparable to the sun). I'll supplement with two of my existing 48" VHO Super-Actinics.

Figure that will allow me to keep more SPS corals, as well as improve the health of my existing inhabitants. A jump from 440W to 720W and a much different (better) intensity light. I'll also be able to then utilize a dusk/dawn effect by staggering the photo-period of the MH with the actinics.

(And gain that cool shimmering effect!)

Overdriving lights.
 

Andrew, are you wondering if you can get close to the rated output by doing this on your VHO's sence they are a little under powered now? hmm that would be interesting to see how maby watts you would get by doing that. if you have a multi meter measure it and let me know.. I am betting it will be about 230ish watts [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Steve

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

Shimmer effect in MH...what's that ? (just kidding)

Any who...you want a MV setup for the Iwasaki (makes Iwasaki bluer, they are design to run off of a MV and MV are cheaper).

Super VHO...you can be the pioneer and try it out [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Get some old VHOs from reefers and give it whirl. OR...we can get Steve to try it out...Steve ?

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

hehe if I had a ice cap I would..I think I have a little radiation burn on the left side of my face from my last exparament still [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] but now what were you sayign about cheeper MH? I would be interested in that.. how much would it be to get a one bulb 175 or 250 watt set up going?

Steve

[ 11 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

Depends how DIY you want to get...but $200 to $300 is the price range for a 250W Iwasaki single fixture. $100 for the lamp...so the fixture can range between $100 to $200. MV are $10 to $30 cheaper than MH.

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

and do they look better on a MV ballast than they would on a MH ballast? all I would be looking for is a bulb , ballast and socket.. I woulf do all the wiring myself

Steve

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

Iwasaki 250w used by reefers are known as MV conversion lamps. They are MH lamps, but they are design to operate on a MV fixture. MV are cheaper because they don't need a capacitor to start.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/aquari...ml/DIY_MH.html

Iwasaki is more blue when MV ballast is used.

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

Excellent link Victor! That is exactly what I need. Looks like I'll be working on that project in the new year sometime.

Is it possible to get MV ballasts from Albrite or similar local supplier?

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

Yupe. The part numbers are in the link. Note that some ballasts are more efficient than others (for example, one ballast could require ~5A to run a 250W lamp, while another one would require 3A).

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

Steve,

Ummm...do you think you can do some of your PC measurements with a 3 feet distance from the lamp. Andy, from Icecap, did some measurements @ 3 feet.

From Andy :


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
From IceCap:
The readings are in LUX.

Latest installment.
1)Two MagneTek Universal 446L electronic ballasts (2 lamps per ballast).
Wattage used by lamps and ballast = 173
Light meter reading from three feet away = 182
L/W = 1.052
2)One Model 660 electronic ballast.
Wattage used by lamps and ballast = 269
Light meter reading from three feet away = 333
L/W = 1.238
or 83% more light, 17% more lumens per watt.

All tests this time were on brand new G.E. AquaRay Fresh & Saltwater 4-foot, NO T-12 lamps. I ran the Conventional ballasts 1st just in case the break-in caused them to drop off output quickly.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reefburnaby:
Hi,

Iwasaki 250w used by reefers are known as MV conversion lamps. They are MH lamps, but they are design to operate on a MV fixture. MV are cheaper because they don't need a capacitor to start.
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/aquari...ml/DIY_MH.html

Iwasaki is more blue when MV ballast is used.

- Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok I just got back from Albrite and they have a Iwasaki for me but there is no R designation like they mention in that article and they have no listing for another bulb, and now that I look at the pictures the bulb they have is not the "R" that we need. also they tell me it wont run on a MV ballast is this true or do they just think this.. they have no listing for the advance balast mentioned in the article also. anyone have anyother ideas whare to look?

Steve

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,
http://www.eyelighting.com/mhconversioncleanace.html

R version has the UV shield. I believe there is an Iwasaki distributor in BC. So, you can contact them to make sure that they have it. Then call Albrite to call them to get that bulb....I don't think the distributor can sell directly to you (but you can try). Or...you can buy a UV shield.

As for your ballast, I'll get back to you on that one...I'll find you a more common ballast (the one they recommend works with 4 different line voltages...which we don't need and they tend to be rare). Say...what does Albrite say that they recommend for a MV ballast ?
-------

opps...type R is not the UV shield version. Its the version with a resistor in the bulb. I'll try to find out what's the story, but supposedly this is a newer bulb. The old ones don't have the R designation.

- Victor.

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

Overdriving lights.
 

they said that you have to use a MH balast.. that a MH bulb will run in a MH balast only.. but I was on the Iwaska page and they even say there NOT to use a MH ballast... so I will have to not tell them what I want .. so the only difference between the two bulbs is a UV shield? do we need that? I found a better drawing of the two different bulbs.. looks like a lot of difference besides a uv shield.. the "R" one has a carbon resistor and the other doesent..
http://www.carlosreef.com/iwasaki_comparison.htm

hey I found a company in BC that is a distrubitor for thease bulbs..
Standard Products Inc.
103A-81 Golden Drive
Coquitlam, BC V3K 6R2
CANADA
Phone: 604-945-4550
Fax: 604-945-9019

mabe some one over there can call them or stop buy and get the real info on thease bulbs and a price.. and what the diff is between the r and the non-r besids the carbon resistor.

Steve

[ 14 December 2001: Message edited by: StirCrazy ]

Overdriving lights.
 

Steve,
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin...asaki+resistor

That should explain it [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Yah...just tell them you want a Metal Vapour ballast and capacitor (if required for that ballast). Iwasaki is a MV conversion lamp -- a MH lamp design to run in a MV ballast.

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

What would happen if you use a standard ballast for a 48" on a 24" would this over drive the lights too? Or is there something I'm missing?

Lee

Overdriving lights.
 

If you mean doinging what I did but using a balast made to run 4 foot tubes and running 4 foot tubes ya it will be ther same idea..

Steve

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

I am assuming the 1.5" diameter tubes right ?

The problem is that 40W and 20W usually uses approximately 430mA of lamp current -- that is the current flowing through the fluorescent tube. In order to overdrive either lamp, you would need to bump up the lamp current -- that is why we attach multiple ballasts in parallel. When we attach the ballasts in parallel, we are driving more current in to the lamp. So the main different between the 40W and 20W tube is the voltage across the tube -- the 40W has double the voltage.

What I am trying to say is that you will need the same amount of equipment to overdrive a 40W as you would a 20W.

- Victor.

Overdriving lights.
 

I get the parallel part this makes more sense, but is the operating voltage different for different length bulbs? I have found some ballast that say 18"-24" and other that say 36"-48"

Was thinking if I got a ballast for a 48" x 1.5" and only installed a 24"x1.5" if this would explode, or be in overdrive.

I think it would be best to get the right ballast and put the outputs together. Just haven't found ballasts up here that handle more than 2 bulbs. Will try HD in Nanaimo on Friday.

Lee

Overdriving lights.
 

Hi,

The 18" to 24" thing...I think that is true for electromagnetic ballast. Since the operating voltage and current for those lamps are approximately the same (within 15%), the 18" will be overdriven slightly and 24" is underdriven slightly -- but the same ballast is used for both.

As for lamps exploding...unlikely. The worst it will do is burn out like a light bulb or not start at all.

If you want to overdrive a 20W, you can buy a F32T8 ballast and drive 4 outputs in to one lamp (or even two in series may be possible)....that should overdrive it by 2x.

- Victor.