MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree, but it does get testy. As in, teste, as in "testerone." I for one am sorry to have been a walking dick here in this thread.

On Topic: though sodium lamps are great for growing weed (or so I've heard through my prison visitation program), I don't think they would turn anyone's crank here.

Also, I have no SPS and cannot have any. You guys seem to be concentrating on those, so I'm out of my league.

Cheers.

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Blue and white light has been shown to promote greater skeletal growth in both LPS corals and SPS corals. With the addition of a healthier population of zooxanthellae within the coral tissue. "one should not overlook the importance of asthetics. A tank should be both functional and beautiful!"Delbeek and Sprung

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Ironic post Bob.

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry, but L-O-freaking-L ! (I have to go pee now.) Humour is where you find it, I guess.

;)

[ 05 October 2002, 15:10: Message edited by: AJ_77 ]

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Bob, Bob,Bobin in the water. Why do I bother!!LOL http://www3.telus.net/public/montipor/Anemone.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/montipor/LeftTank.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/montipor/BlueMontiCap.jpg http://www3.telus.net/public/montipor/RightSide.jpg You want a reason to change your lights, I think you just gave it Bob!!!

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Very nice indeed. Much more than I will ever attempt. I am just a poor pensioner :eek: . Could you post some details somewhere? such as size of tank, lighting, and inhabitants?

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Holy cow. I just stumbled into this thread.

A PC light comparison photo from July follows. The new PC bulb is on the left and the 6 month old PC bulb is on the right. It is noticeably dimmer on the right side.

I think a 6 month PC bulb does have some useful life but I would not use them if they were the main bulbs in the tank. As my PC bulbs are the main and only light source in my tank, I choose to change them every 6 months as I think the animals will be happier and it also looks better for my viewing pleasure. If they were supplemented by more PC bulbs or if they themselves were supplements to main MH bulbs, I wouldn't change them for 2 years.

For people with multiple high powered MH lights over their tanks, they may have success with 2 year old lights because they have so much light in the first place, a decrease in intensity isn't going to affect the health of their animals.

Chris, very nice. Very interesting to see differences in our BTA clones under different lighting conditions.

http://www.hyperdream.com/~samw/reef.../gevsoldge.jpg

[ 05 October 2002, 16:36: Message edited by: Sam W ]

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

I am going to be eating a bit of crow today. You will find a picture below of my 33 gallon tank. The left side is lit with Sam's six month old GE 9325K PC bulb. The right is my almost two year old same bulb. I will replace the right one as soon as this post is done. I will then observe that BTA to see if it looks better. It looks like I will still continue to buy your six month old bulbs Sam.
http://www.therockies.com./rcipema/newbulb.jpg

MH FOR CHEAP 250,400
 

Well we certainly have many replies. Some of which appear to be well thought out, and very useful. Sadly enough some replies appear to just plain dumb. But that is the problem with written communication. It is impossible to really tell what the writer wants to say. I therefore ignore all replies that seem dumb, and cast aspersions on me and my methods. I am sure the writer of those comments is not anywhere as dumb as it appears. Now for Jamie Cross who wanted pictures. I have just updated my site with lots of pictures. And for Tony, please have a look at this Anemone pictures and tell me if it looks alright.
http://www.therockies.com/rcipema/anemoneone.jpg I have no knowledge of them so anything would help. As to someone coming over to take pictures of your tank. I would be happy to do so although I do not have the best camera in the world. :D :) :lol:

&lt;small>[ 05 October 2002, 14:30: Message edited by: Bob Ipema ]&lt;/small>

Bob,

Yes I have seen some shots of your tank. I feel brown is not at all a hard color to acheive. I geuss everyone is intrested in different things in this hobby and as long as your acheiveing what you wish continue doing what your doing.If I know anything about corals, I feel the deep brown color in your animals are causes by less then adequate lighting. This causes your animals to host as much zooxanthalle as possible to substain life. Yes I'm sure they will life. As healthy as possible? From my experience I'd say no. But at the end of the day this is a selfish hobby and if your happy then that is what matters. Myself am not happy unless I'm pulling the best colors as possible out of my animals. As much as other things play a roll, lighting is one of the major contributers. That is why I feel the way I do about the kelvin and life of my bulbs.

I would like you to go to my site, and click on to my email link. Then tell me which picture in particular looks brown. The top eight are lit with a 15000K MH bulb. The pics on the bottom row are lit with older 9325K PC bulbs. They look pinkish in real life. :?:

Bob,
I was looking at the anenome in particular. Camera's are some times not the best to judge from. If everythings pink then your doing just fine. Keep up the good work.

Yes you are quite right, that anemone is brown under any light. It is brown even in daylight. Maybe that is why its former owner called it "Buttugly" :D

BTA's (the regular variety) are brownish under most light, greener under actinic. I think Butt needs more flow also.

Bob has it ever had buble tips? Mine I cant get rid of them whats your secret?http://www3.telus.net/public/montipor/AnemoneWClown.jpg

Chris,
Can you take a pic of your BTA please. I'd like to see the difference.

BTA's don't really change colour. If it's one colour then it typically stays that colour (although the exact hue may differ over time due to differing conditions). Brown is pretty typical. They're brown even in the wild. The only ones I ever saw in the wild were brown. (Although they can come in reds, pinks, oranges, greens, maroons even bi-colour varieties). In shallower water I found more with "bubble tips" and in deeper water less so. I think this makes sense, if you look at the ratio of surface area to volume of a sphere compared to that of a cylinder or cone.

Considering that you likely have your anemone under very intense light, Chris, this would be my guess why yours stays bubbled. However lighting is not the be-all-end-all answer to why they bubble up sometimes and sometimes not. Ultimately it's still a bit of a mystery. I've had clones right next to each other where one would bubble up and the other not.

Chris how big is your BTA? Have you had it long -- or has it split recently? What and how often are you feeding it?

The anemone is 5'-6' across, Ive had it about 3months. You would have to confirm this with Sam. And I dont feed it the Sebae Clown does once in a while. When the tips do deflate they turn a glowing red color and that is usualy right after it eats.
Sam maybe you could post a pic of yours? It would be an interesting comarison, as they do seem to be the same anemone.Tony do you also have pics of these anemones your talking about?

well now I'm out of my area of knowledge. From the picture Bob posted of his anenome it sure seemed deep brown. Sure their are many animals that are brown. The brown is usaully a lot lighter in color and at some level almost transparent. It also seems like the tentacles are very lanky to me. Again I'm no anemone expert. I do feel lighting is one of the major factor in a healthy and thriving reef. That is another reason I will not run old bulbs as if something does go wrong in my system I can always rule out lighting as a problem. From the many bulbs I've change out, if I have pushed them to their limits, I've always seem big and worth while improvments in my animals. Trust me I would love to spend the 500+ dollars a year I spend on lighting else were.

I am again taking crappy pictures at night after lights out, but wanted to share this, since I have two different BTA's. ( I am mostly just posting these for the appearance differences, they also exhibit color differences, although under the same lighting)

One, my original, spawned ButtUgly. Notice the elongated tentacles. They always have been, I really don't recall bubble tips even under the 2 X 250w.

http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/BTA1.jpg

This one is a BTA as well, but much different, I didn't use the flash there.

http://members.shaw.ca/bhadford1/BTA2.jpg

All under 175w MH and in the same tank in identical conditions.

Looks more like a LTA, are you sure its aBTA?

I have an LTA, and there is no comparison. I believe Tony will agree it is a BTA. :)

Does it get bubble tips? :)

Pay attention Pocil... :P

Pay attention your self, no bubble tips. Not a BTA :lol:But I do agree its Buttugly :DSo what makes you think its a BTA enlighten me :roll:

That is hysterical.... :lol:

Stop editing your post.... :roll: so I can keep up.. :lol:

Hmmm, it looks like nine of Mitch's BTA's and four or so of Tony's....

And it doesn't look like my LTA, and it isn't a ritteri....but I am open :P

LMAO....

this thread

Emily,
Please help me understand what makes a BTA a BTA. Again I know little about them so this is intresting. I'm curiuos to how one knows.

I don't have an answer on IDing Anemones other than to say that it looks like a BTA because it looks like mine. And I know mine's a BTA because the Pet Shop told me so. :) Also, I believe BTA's split to reproduce and not all anemones do that.

Poci, the one you have is the clone on the left. This is what yours use to look like. I think yours is all bubbled up now because you have too much light..and its making itself smaller. :lol: j/k I have no idea what is too much or what is just right.

http://www.hyperdream.com/~samw/reef..._img_2_std.jpg


MORE PHOTOS

.

.

Ok, now to me the pics Sam just posted the anemones look more on the tan side then the deep brown from Bob's. They are different so I geuss its tough to use these as examples. Clearly Sam and Chris's are the same animal. Though very different in their different homes. One of these days perhaps we'll have to get the deep brown one out this way and see what happens. Although this thread has shifted all directions. It's very intresting. I joined it as I felt some of the talk on lighting was misleadind and IMO wrong. What do I know though? Perhaps nothing. Forsure very little on were this thread has now gone. Hopefully I'll know a little more by the end of the thread.

Hi,

http://biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/ch1.html#entac

Also, shape of the anemone may change once the anemone has adapted to captive tanks (like the bubble tip may disappear).


- Victor.

This is really great. The thread has wandered all over the place. I have about six hours a day where I have time to think deeoly. From the posts, and further reading I have drawn some conclusions. I will not share them on this thread as it will probably become 100 pages long. I have also come up with more questions, but those are more technical in nature, and I am not sure at this time who could answer them. It would have to be someone with theoretical lighting knowledge :?: :?:

Hi, very quickly since I have to go catch a plane. BTA's can be without "bubble tips." Victor's link is to Daphne Fautin's and Gerald Allen's book (the online version of their book). This is a very worthwhile read if you have any interest in this topic beyond which we can talk about here. They are the world's foremost authorities on the topic of Pacific species of hosting anemones.

Anyways what makes a BTA a BTA and not a ritteri or a carpet. Things to look out for are the density of tentacles, ratio of size of oral disk to height of oral disk, taper of tentacles, presence of verrurcae on the pedal column, it's habit and choice of substrate. Colour hues can sometimes give a clue too, but that's VERY subjective (basically a "brown" BTA will be a different shade of brown than say a "brown" LTA). It's difficult to enumerate, but each species has its own subtleties that once you know what you're looking at, you can see it, but it is difficult to explain in a hurry (kind of like trying to explain how to "See" those 3-d images in those stereograms). The presence of bubble-tips is typically a clincher, but, the absence of them does not indicate it is not a BTA. Basically there are traits for each species that are sometimes there but not always. For example, LTA's can hold their tentacles in a spiral shape (which explains another common name for LTA which is "corkscrew" anemone). Looking at several example of each, it gets easier to understand what you're seeing. One particular problem I have, for example, is sebaes H. crispa vs. H. malu. I have seen so many photographs that I would swear are the same anemone but some labelled the one and others the other. It suggests to me that even the "experts" have to rely upon a subjective gut feeling at times, but ultimately it must still be guesswork at some level.

Jamie, I never meant to dispute what you said about lighting. When anyone looks at your setup, there can be no doubt in anyone's mind as to whether you know what you're talking about or not. For the record: I would never suggest to anyone that it's OK to use a two-year old bulb. If the animals are photosynthetic, then it's a game of Russian Roulette. Your (and Chris's) advice are sage: always keep your lights new. Unless you have a "Very Good Reason" not to (but as you say, it's an investment to eliminate "possible" damage from old lights.)

Anyways I really, really have to run, would like to talk some more on this topic but it will have to be tomorrow. Thanks guys, talk to you soon.

buttugly
 

Here's a recent picture of old "butt". It was taken a few minutes ago with no light on in the tank. It is daylight supplemented with flash.
http://www.therockies.com/rcipema/buttugly.jpg

Emily you just pointed to a post where the anemone didnt have bubble tips and then it did so whats your point? I now have that anemone. You have given no reason to make me or anyone think that yours is a BTA.Its all speculation and a guess. Why dont you ship a clone over here when you get one and see what happens. I seem to have prety good luck at making the one I got from Sam expand quite a bit. Ill pay shipping.

Play nice now Pocillapora. You have to put smilies in when you are mean like that. :) :) :) :)

:D :D :D :D :roll: :D

Hi,

Theoretical lighting knowledge ? No problem Ask away.
- Victor.

I am only an ordinary electrician so I do not have all that theory. I will try to put up the post when I get it all straight in my mind. :)