Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did I win someting yet!!!!!!!!!!! :D [img]tongue.gif[/img] :eek: [img]smile.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">um.. the only person I see being childish is you Steph.. there are some realy good discussions happening here.

the only comment I have is for the tang police themselves.. have you ever wondered how many people that have knowlage and hands on experiance with tangs that you are scarring from making posts to help people? I am not talking about people with 33 gal tanks but rather of people who are running 90 to 120 gal tanks with two tangs or bigger with more that are helthy and have been doing good for years.. It sure is a shame that we cannot benifit from the experence of thease people because they don't want to put op with the "Crap" from the so called "Tang police"

JMHO

Steve

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

I think you may be of the mistaken opinion that the tang police are a group of reefers experienced with tangs who just have very large tanks.
That is not the case.
Most reefers who have 90 to 120 gallon tanks who are experienced in keeping tangs might not post because they would agree with most of what they, the tang police, say.
Crap?? Come on be nice, eh

What do you disagree with Stircrazy?
What is the size of your tank?How long has it been up and running?
What species of tangs do you keep?
Thank you

[ 23 September 2002, 21:21: Message edited by: naesco ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

My doubleband surgeonfish appeared to have HLLE, actually, it looked like someone shot it.

We immediately ran some tests for stray voltage and got a problem with the new skimmer pump.

I was sick about the tang, but we basically watched this hole disappear when the problem pump was shut down.

I really didn't post that largely because of anti-tang threads. That scares me.

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

BTW, I kept a harem of lemon peels in the 155g for about ten months and they spawned nightly..it was awesome.

When I changed the tanks over, and moved them to smaller quarters every one of them died. :(

I still regret that so much.

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">this is what I mean.. it doesnt matter what I put you are going to blast it as being to small.. but it is a 92 gal tank with a yellow tang.

but you yourself are looking for corals for a brand new tank with out any regard for them.

Do I see anyone being a Anthias police? they are small and the min recomendation for them is 50 to 60 gal PER fish, but no one cares..

tangs are a nice fish but as with any type of fish they have different requirments for each type.. I can almost understand that you should warn people that traditionaly powder blues have a bad track record but I also have seen a large numbers of powder blues that are healthy and happy.. same goes for other types..

my main problem is that when some one does ask for help or advice the first thing the "tang Police" say is "do the right thing take it back to the store." "shame on you how could you" ect.. instead of trying to actualy help people.

Emily was a case and point.. she was scared to post about her tang because the first thing said would have been "thats what you get for a tang in a tank that small" or some garbage like that.

just to set the record strait .. I am not condoning a large tang in a 33 gal tank.. nor am I saying that you should have a min 180 gal tank , or 5 foot long tank befor you get a tang.. all I am trying to say is lets try to help people with out the garbage remarks, other wise people don't come back and we could be missing out on some other valuable experiance that they might have had.

Steve

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

C'mon guys, Stephane was just joking around. If anyone should take offense from his comments it's me as I'm the one that strayed off course.

Deb, you shouldn't shy away from sharing that kind of information. It may save someone's tang one day. Though many people may know that HLLE is often often caused by stray voltage or malnutrition, there are many that don't.

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">true Troy and I apolagize Steph (even if I can't spell it right [img]smile.gif[/img] )

I just didn't think that it helped much.. sorry again..

Steve

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

What's with the hang up on the whole "Tang Police" issue? Truth be told, I see a lot of problems with people having Anthias, Large Angels, Puffers, Triggers, and the list goes on and on. Tangs just happen to be one of the most commonly acquired specimens that are subjected to conditions that I feel are less than ideal (for a captive environment). Furthermore, the issues regarding water quality and so forth are moot. One should assume that, first and foremost, the basic care requirements such as appropriate water quality, feeding regimen, etc are invariably being met.

What about sharks (in particular Epaulette spp.) being kept in captivity? How many of you believe that they should be housed in very large aquariums, if kept at all? The people who most strongly defend the husbandry practice of keeping Tangs in "smallish" aquariums are typically those who are doing so - as is often the case with those people who choose to house sharks, large Angels, etc. Now, how many of you who have several Tangs in aquariums of 100g or less disagree with keeping sharks in your typical hobbyist's aquarium?

I agree that this thread is going off on a tangent. The "Tang Police" are generally people who are fairly conservative and concerned about the long-term sustainability of the hobby (that's not to say that the people who obviously have some serious disdain for the "Tang Police" don't also share the same concern for the sustainability of the industry/hobby). Perhaps my concern and strong stance stems from the fact that, as someone who worked in the industry for several years, I've seen countless people go to greater and greater lengths to cram more and more fish into their aquaria while viewing the fish as disposable, material possessions.

(P.S. According to my room mate's girlfriend - who has graduated from photography school and is a professional photographer - my calculations of the fish's length are valid. The ratio of the size of the tank to the size of the fish would presumably be constant unless the picture had been doctored in one way or another with something like Photoshop. And the picture was obviously not taken with a "fish-eye" lens or something of the sort that would significantly distort the aspect ratio.)

[ 23 September 2002, 23:26: Message edited by: Canadian ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

My response to all of this.

Read my signature.. Easy as that.

If more people would heed this. There wouldn't be a need for "Tang Police".

Use your head.. If you wouldn't live in those conditions. Why subject an animal to it. It has as much right to a healthy life as you do. Keep yourself penned up in a tiny apartment 24/7 for a few weeks. See if bothers you to be so enclosed. Especially if you were an active person.

Too many people are shooting for the bare minimum. Far to many. As well, many are now seeking instant gratification by filling their tanks as fast as possible. At the possible downfall of the creatures within. Put the creatures you hope to own ahead of your desires for "eye candy".

[ 23 September 2002, 23:49: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I hear what you are saying. But I recall back in Oct/Nov 2001, I think your heater was stuck on and you lost almost everything and had to restart. Yet, a month later, you were completely restocked and we were all giving you high praises and compliments because it was so amazing to look at. Is this what you mean by too fast though?

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 24 September 2002, 01:14: Message edited by: Sam W ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was only trying to keep that post on the right track as I know it is a very flamable tread!

Anyway Steve the more I know you the less I want to heard about you so please when you read a post and you see a reply from me just dont read it and ignore me, I will do the same with you .

you are defenitivaly not the kind of people I want to talk anymore

I have tell you politely so please respect and just do it as I dont want to argue

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">:D

[ 24 September 2002, 00:37: Message edited by: stephane ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

SFF, if you are so sure about your right doing why you are still here looking for some sort of approval from ignorant and non-ignorant members of this board? Just do what you think is right and enjoy it.

To all others who disagree with SFF, I just would like to say "Give the guy break!". He didn't come here with question "Can I keep tangs in dadadada...." Despite many arguments on this and other boards he believes that he is right. So let him be. Do you want to punish him or something? Only one who wants to be helped can be helped. Is he asking for help? I don't think so.

BTW, if you want to protect tangs then focus on traders with tangs. They kill much more tangs in the capturing process than aquarium stores will ever see.

Can somebody close this thread now, please. :D :D :D :D

[ 23 September 2002, 13:01: Message edited by: pirate ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

Many good points Troy,
With regards to your first question, about trading fish in, and how Tak cannot be a resource for everyone. Well that is true. If each reefer here bought a small tang and raised it to the medium size, without killing it, Tak would have more than enough room in his 10,000 gal...but will he ALWAYS be there? No. So your arguement is sound under ideal and lasting conditions. Your suggestion of planning to provide for your Tang's growth as he matures is an ideal solution - obviously the best and most conscientious. This means at some point buying a ~200-300 gallon system(in my opinion). That truly is ideal, but may not be in the plans for many of us. But the arguement is sound again.

It is great to see that most people do their best to provide for their fish, whether it is by trading them into larger systems, or purchasing systems that are larger. (the difference?)

Then about this photo, and the size issue on the small Paracanthurus hepatus. I found the calculation from Canadian's computer screen to be a little sketchy. I respect what he was trying to prove, but looking at a photo to judge size you would need to know a lot more than just the size of your own monitor. The depth, angle, lighting, filters, lense etc. can all contribute to make a tang look small or large. Canadian's method of determining tang size was full of variable's he couldn't control. period.
I could take a snapshot of a 1 cm tang and make it look larger than a dinner-plate sized Sarcophyton spp. (Please don't aske me too though ;) )
As far as exaggerating what makes us look better, that shot was beneath you Troy. You are a great guy to talk to, full of knowledge, and experience. You don't need to speculate on someone's possible exaggerations.

Also Troy - your quote

"I think the point you make about mimics is interesting although, I don't know that it applies in the way you would like."

Maybe not, and maybe you have read that it is because Centropyge spp. angels are less palatable. So have I...I was just speculating that it might not be that simple... The nature of the theory posed is not meant to bolster my arguement, but to bring up an additional relation in behavior. BTW, I have seen two Centropyge spp. angels scarfed down by two separate groupers (Epinephalus ongus, and Cromileptes altivelis) That doesn't mean that Centropyge spp. are palatable, but they are certainly edible.

As far as grazing fish go, I feel that most reef fish species graze on a number of habitats in the wild.

Yes Doug I agree with you completely. I have kept some Centropyge spp. and I have seen them delight in caves, lush live rock full of diverse life. They like to poke at things, and mine likes to organize all the other fish in the tank. He herds them around, keeping them away from hisfavourite arch (including the juvenile powder blue tang!!) They truly excel in tanks that are suitable for mandarins as well. My Centropyge argi has fluorescent blue streaks along his body, and I attribute that to the diversity of life growing on my live rock.

Diomedes

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

You've all made some excellent points and, as with every time this argument comes up anywhere on the www, people tend to get a little excited (myself included). Diomedes brought the subject up with some interesting points, try to discuss them or bring any new ideas you have. Try to remember that the reason this is such a hot topic for debate is because people don't agree.

SFF, you have my apologies for singling you out. I still don't agree with you though [img]smile.gif[/img] .

I do have a few more thoughts on the subject but have to go to work :( .

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

:(

[ 24 September 2002, 07:38: Message edited by: Doug ]

Tank size for Tangs? An evaluation...
 

As this thread seems to have lived out its useful life, we feel its best it now be closed, before it degenerates further. Sorry, lets get back to reefing.