these were my first bulbs.. I hated them.. then I went to geisnmann 135 k they were ok. then XM 10k too white,, and finally I am on phoenix 14k with my vho actinics.. The best light so far and well priced... I love the blue tint of these bulbs... They lightened up nicely after about 2 weeks.. I wont use any other bulb unless I get a free one of another brand to try.. PHOENIX all the way for me.. they are about 80 bucks ,. Try em..!!!

Thanks, where can one buy those, I looked on J&L's site but don't see them there.

I run a Phoenix as well double end 250 and am happy with the color got it from Wendel at OA.

I love my Phoenix bulbs (250w de). As good as my much more expensive Aquaconnect 14000k 250w de bulbs IMHO.

Anthony