Skimmer and Lighting question
 

I'll agree with Troy there as well Victor.

I had a 90 with 320W of lighting with NO's and LPS's didn't do very well. And that was with weekly or more feedings. I think I just kept them alive. Tho one Bubble did receed. That one I put in Silverfish's tank to keep it healthy till I moved it to my current tank. They were up about 8 to 9 inches beneath the tubes. They need the intense light that the SPS need as well. Now that my LPS are under a MH they are doing much better. Showing growth and healing the damage that was caused under insufficient lighting.

Most softies should be fine. With a few exceptions.

It can be done.. I have seen it done. But the tank was converted to a MH system before any damage was visible. Why risk the coral tho?

And my 33 is not the norm for lighting. I just wanted to get the max I could over this tank. And by the growth my SPS is showing it is paying off.

I think a 33 with a fair bit of LR(which you have [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]) and softies would make a SWEET tank. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Tho I prefer the hard stuff.. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

As for time to get it going and safe for corals? I'd give it a couple of weeks.. Nothing major really. Are you putting a DSB in it? Moving existing sand? Entirely new? That is the big thing. There isn't a significant water addition. 13 gallons. That is just a big water change. No worries there. I did the same for my move.

And Patrick, I still have some Colt waiting here for you.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I'll hold onto it until your tank is set up and running if you like. I lost your number when you gave it to me.. So let me know and we can get these frags to ya..

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

Hello,

I don't know...I have a torch and a Candy Cane and they are under one 6500K 55W in a 20 gal. All happy and doubling in 12 months. 33 and 96W would be brighter than mine.

From Dr. Ron Shimek on Reef Central, light provides Zooxanthellae with energy so that it can give food to the Corals. Suppose, we feed the same amount of food to the coral as it would get from Zooxanthelae....hey that should work right. Yupe, the food you give corals will be nutritionally complete...not just a selected sugars from Zooxanthellae.

But hey....that is just my humble opinion.

- Victor.

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

I understand about light feeding corals. But the thing is this tank is a 33. It is taller than a 20. Not much(a few inches but)The intensity of the PC will decrease exponentially as you go deeper. That was why I mentioneed I had 320W of NO light(even 400W at one point) on a 90 and the LPS were right below the surface and they didn't fare well. And that was with regular feeding.

We also don't know how far from the surface you have your LPS. How far Patrick intends to keep his. In general tho I would not recommend LPS under that amount of light.

And this is why..

I moved my LPS from 320W of NO in my 90 to about 350W of MH(not VHO's as I have now)with NO actinics in a 33 and they were flourishing. Both were the same distance from the lighting. If not deeper in the 33. There is no siginficant difference in wattage. Feedings haven't changed. Intensity did. You can look at PC lamps directly. But to look at a MH bulb you will hurt your eyes. It is that intensity that penetrates much further into the water column that keeps light loving corals alive.

Wattage or watts per gallon, means squat to me. It is the intensity of the lighting that keeps these corals alive. If you are using NO you need to be real close to the lamps to get any real intensity, PC's are a little further away. With MH you can get the intensity you need to keep them alive at a much greater depth.

I dont' feed my branching hammer anymore and it is showing new branches all over it. IT was barely alive when I moved it out of my old tank to a MH equipped tank.

That is all my experience tho and opinion..

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

Hi Victor,

Well you can't argue with personal experience. If it is working for you then you are doing something right. There are many that use NO lighting only and they claim success too. I just think if we are going to point new reefers in a direction it should be to err on the side of caution. I'm not saying your way isn't possible just that every successful tank I've seen has had high lighting. Then again, DaleD's 90gal reef had 1x175W 10000K bulb with 2 80W actinics and was the most beautiful LPS/softie tank I've yet seen bar none. Whatever work's I guess. Have I made any point? <I don't know>

One thing to consider when having to feed LPS is the increased nutrient load on a system. That nutrient load had better be accounted for, especially in a small tank. I believe I have personal experience on this issue [img]images/smiles/icon_sad.gif[/img] unfortunately.

Another thing to consider is that Ron's comments about zooxanthellae and nutrition are not widely accepted, (and that is my understatement of the year). Most of those with a background in the field feel that his comments are downright irresponsible.

edit: what's up with the italics? I didn't add them unless I've discovered new code. Maybe that confused opening paragraph is what did it.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

After reading the comments, I will not get the Sea Clone Skimmer, I will look at the one that Bakpak skimmer from reefboy. The lighting was $290.00 for a 36” strip. I will be visiting J&L’s this weekend and see the Iwasaki 250W set up. I thought that they would be more expensive than that! I try to get over the bridge to see J&L’s more, but it’s hard.

I am really glad I came and asked questions, sometimes I just get a headache after talking to some of sales people in the stores. I will be at the Nov 18th meeting so I will probably wait until then before I purchase any new equipment except for the Skimmer from reefboy.

In the past I asked about LPS and their load on the system. How would I know that I am doing something wrong, before something dies?

My time line is something like this:

Purchase new equiment – by the end of November or sooner
Run for 2 – 4 weeks as a FOWLR
Start adding corals


Darren I really would like some of the frags. But please keep them for a little longer.

Really can’t wait for the meeting.

Patrick

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

1 more thing.

If I started with a 250W system, would that be sufficent lighting for hard & soft corals? In 2 months time I can then proceed to phase 2 with the 95W VHO actinics?

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

Patrick,

Stop by and see my system some day.

Yes a 250MH will work for what you are wanting to keep. Add in the two VHO's and you will be doing very well indeed. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I ahve two clams in my sand bed and they look awesome. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] If you do come over tho keep in mind I have a deeeep sand bed which brings everything up closer to the light. It is 5 to 6 inches deep in places.

It is a 250W Iwasaki with 3x95W VHO actinics. It is a tight fit with the lid. But it does light up the tank. All of my SPS is showing growth. In particular two staghorns of mine are budding like crazy. We won't even go into the montipora. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I'll keep holding the colt frag for ya.. [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Victor,

I hope you don't take my post as any kind of an attack. I am glad your LPS are doing great.. My main worry is that someone reading this will think that with a PC setup they will have the success you are having. Your system is working for you and is doing so very well I take it. I once thought that by putting a whole lot of watts over my tank I could keep anything. I lost a couple of softies and almost some LPS. I don't want others to make that mistake.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: DJ88 ]

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

Hello Darren and Troy,

Okay...for a begineer -- more light is better. Just remember that most of the light output comes from the 6500K or 10000K PCs. The actinics contribute a small fraction (20%) of the total light intensity. That's why I am saying a single 6500K 96W is pretty close to a 10000K + 03 Actinic 192W (which is a pretty common and widely accepted setup for LPS).

Darren, I wasn't offended by your comments. My tank is a little bit brighter than J&Ls LPS tanks. The LPSes are at the bottom corner of my tank....and my tank has no gravel. Go figure [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] Hmmm...I am in the process of lighting my 90 gal with 220W of 4xT8s. Its overdriven with an Icecap clone. I must be crazy....really crazy. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Patrick, you must be really confused now !! Just go for the Iwasakis...you'll never regret it or worry about if you have enough lighting.

Hopefully, nobody got offended by my comments and opinions...

- Victor.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: reefburnaby ]

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

Nope no offense taken. I appreciate your opinions.

[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: Troy F ]

Skimmer and Lighting question
 

A Thought comes to mind ( a rare ocasion [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ) if I string up two pc's over my tank lets say a 6500K and a 10000K 96w each could a 400 watt 20000K MH be used to provide the atinics? or would that be nuts on a 33 gal?

Steve