I get what you are saying. There are people who seem to suggest that keeping pets saves them from a miserable life in the wild. That is clearly silly. And yet I think there is a middle ground between "pets are fully sentient" and "pets are objects". I have similar feelings about cattle. Yes, we keep them to kill and eat them. Yet I don't think that means we can treat them any way we feel like. I feel like we owe them proper nutrition, a modicum of space so they don't go crazy, and as quick a death as we can manage. So in an aquarium context, it means (for me) not being cavalier about the critters I keep. I don't lose sleep if I buy a coral and it dies, but I do attempt to create conditions that it could thrive. And that means researching, asking for advice from those with more experience, and making reasonable choices with what I buy. I don't feel foggy, but maybe I'm out to lunch? Maybe with a few more years under my belt I'll feel differently. :)

Definitely agree!

I certainly don't consider them objects, and attempt to give them as happy a life as is possible within the confines of my selfish little glass box. I wouldn't let a fish needlessly suffer without aid or a quick exit.

Thought we'd get more input into this. Tough crowd...

I don't see a problem with someone like yourself or any other person that's been in the hobby for along time who has some experience. I get annoyed at those who are constantly asking the newbie questions (that seem to be stupid questions to us), getting those hard to keep fish. It's those same people that also turn in to self proclaimed experts 2yrs in:lol:
Oh this fish is so cool and you may not be able to keep it alive but I can. I have a Seaclone 150 ya know!
Tough crowd you say? A few years ago there would have been 10 pages on this topic and probably a heated argument or two.:lol:
Any comments Marko? Poor guy took it hard on that one:lol:

I know. It's sad. I open it up for debate and argument, nothing. Every single person on the board (396 when I posted this) should have an opinion.

I guess if I want to spawn any kind of discussion these days, maybe another salt poll. FFS...

Guess I'll just go check for prices on sale posts lol

I lost my yellow tail damsel today and I feel horrible. So bad in fact that I'll probably head to my LFS tomorrow and grab something else.

I also tend to love hard to keep fish but there are some that I try very hard to resist buying due to past negative experiences or just from knowing how poorly they have faired for others.

I was recently tempted to keep a Moorish Idol but decided against it because of my high fish bioload and the fact that my largest tank is now "only" a 165g and not the 220g I used to have.

I think both Moorish Idols and Achilles tangs need extremely high flow/highly oxygenated water to thrive and personally, if I had one of these hard to keep fish doing well in my tank, I'd try my best to have it as the last fish I add to that system. I would also never shut off my skimmer for more than a few minutes to clean it or reduce the flow. Would I like to know if flow/high O2 levels are really essential to keeping these fish alive? Yes. Would I risk them to prove or disprove that theory? Never.

Anthony

Lol sure got over that one fast :biggrin:

Not sure why but I almost never see people consider nor accept hypoxia as a cause of death when the same fish (even previously established ones) die consistently (overnight most likely) within a week while all others are fine.

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/sh...ad.php?t=30777 "What skimmer are you using? None"