yeah Box cost is a HUGE part of it.them little buggers cost alot to get across the water. My wife worked for a LPS up till 6 months ago. I helped with the SW section. The store is now basicly a joke as all worthy help has left. But in her time there i got to see alot of how the sale of SW fish works.

Here's something I've been thinking about. Ok maybe profit margin has come down a bit. But demand has gone up. You can see that more and more people are getting into the hobby and I believe profits are increasing even though margins are going down. This is due to the increased demand and supply. And when both supply and demand goes up, the result is that profits go up too (generally).

The reason I believe this is because there are now way more selection (in terms of stores, stock, and inventory) than ever and the livestock are turning over at a fast pace (often, something I see 1 week is gone the next week or 2). Fresh water stores are now carrying reef animals (Finomenal, Aquariums West, Perky's, King Ed), stores that stopped selling marines are now selling again (Paul's). New stores are popping up (Aquafanatics, Denman Pets, Ocean Aquatics, Hidden Reef,Aquatic Kingdom). Big Al's in Richmond has expanded their marine section by about 30-40% and now has more selection than ever. If it was true that Vancouverites were cheap and that profits in marines are going down, then these situations would not happen. Instead, you would see stores folding, and you would see Big Al's reducing the marine section. Yes, Vancouver reefers have it good here but it seems that the retailers are having it good as well.

Ok, I can believe that margins are down. But I believe the margins in the aquarium hobby are much better than other luxuries such as cars, electronics, computers, etc. It appears that the business side of things is healthy. Business seems good right now to me and it appears that profits (earnings) are up (not for all stores, but in general).

Wholesale price list
 

I was doing a search and I came across the following price list from a Bali wholesaler. http://balimarine.tripod.com/pricelist.htm
I don't know anything about their reputation and i can't interpret their freight rates so I don't know how much it will come up to for a minimum $500 order and nor am I going to try to itemize and break down the costs of doing business to try to determine the profit margin.
But if most wholesalers' prices are like this, its no wonder the collectors are hardly making any money. On top of that, I wonder what type of lifestyles the collectors are living and what measures they take to catch these fish? In all likelihood, indirectly we are supporting some sort of underpaid "collector" sweat shop.

Vancouvers aquarium market has ruined the Interior aquarium market.... The low prices on the coast have been answered with your populations high demand, our low demand and low population has made it not worth bringing in anything because of low volume sales with low margin...


example.... hypothetically all fish are $5 wholesale $7 retail....

vancouver store sells 5000 fish @ $2 profit= $2000

kelowna store sells 50 fish @ $2 profit= $100

and dont say to raise our prices.... without exagerating, I have seen people drive 200miles to save those $3



this results in almost no selection, no nice equipment, the stores here cant afford to maintain the same store with such low volume sales....

the only way I was personally able to survive when I used to bring in alot of fish is by baseing my business from home, and haveing alot of holding tanks enabling me to buy direct from collectors in volume thus keeping my costs low, and then charging a fair retail price to the customer...

if I start bringin fish again, this is how I will operate again, its the only way you could even cover your expenses here...

if you ask almost any reefer in the interior, they drive to vancouver, or purchase through mail order, I hate the way the business has gone in vancouver, so do alot in the industry, I prefer the livestock being more expensive, it leads to less flushed fish(there will always be ones who dont care but it would weed a few out) if you go to stores located in LA that dont even pay the extra air freight we do, they pay alot more than we do for their fish....

vancouver has ruined the industry in my opinion, my rant is over, time for some oreo icecream..... :mrgreen:

Re: Wholesale price list
 

fish have never been expensive, its that bag of heavy water that costs a fortune!!!

you got it. The box charge kills any cost on fish. think how many show sized fish can you fit in one box from fiji with water? lets say you can fit say 6 show sized fish in a box with the water and packing. the box cost is in the hundreds. for 6 show size fish. the fish are cheap but until we teach them to swim over on demand it will cost a small fortune to ship them over.

just for fun call a shipper and ask how much it would cost to ship a box of water 2x2x2 (Lets say it only has 10 gals in it at 10 lbs a gal) from fiji to here in a plane that has a heated pressurize holding compartment. It must be shipped next day air as well. I bet it will come in over $300-400

Now add in the fact that you are paying someone to swim out to a reef and catch that fish. then for the holding tanks that put them in and the overhead that comes with it.

It's no wonder why the cost on those show sized fish would be as much as they are. Its alot of money from Marshal Island to your tank. Just something to think about.

The cost of the box is in the hundreds, and you certainly won't get 6 large show fish in a box. Generally 1 or 2 with some chromis for filling in the spaces. At least that's what I've seen when the boxes come in to the LFS...

yeah im just guessing at the numbers. I dont think people really know what is involved in getting these animals to us healthy.

:biggrin: Typo. You meant $10,000. (5000x2) :biggrin:

I'm trying to understand why fish is any different than other goods. Is it different for a particular reason? Wouldn't this type of behavior be the same whether its cars, electronics, dogs, cats, etc? Or is there a fundamental difference between fish and the rest of the goods? I mean, I'm a bit confused as to why Vancouver as a city is being blamed for the fall of the tropical fish industry in cities outside Vancouver but other industries are unaffected. What is it about fish in Vancouver that is so unique that it doesn't follow basic Economic principles?

I would not say it is just fish. Its more the exotic pet trade. I am also very in reptiles. same can be said for it. herps sell for much less here than back east. maybe the people here are just less willing to pay as much? not sure.