What I don't like abut the HP:

1. Decent graphics processor but no discreet graphics memory. It shares systme RAM with the video processor.

2. No Bluetooth.

3. No firewire. May not be important to you but the Macbbok pro has it.



Toshiba:

1. Again, no discreet video RAM, it shares the system memory for that. and the graphics processor is inferior.

2. No Bluetooth

3. No Firewire.

So if you are going to com,pare to the Macbook pro you have to keep in mind it has discreet video memory for better graphics performance, built in Bluetooth, built in Firewire etc.

Possibly true for 17" screens as Apple only offers high end configurations there. But not true for 15" laptops. You can't look at Apple's cost for HD and RAM upgrades as that skews the price. the same upgrades can be had for far less from third parties. Futureshop's website is working right now but let's do some proper comparisons:

1. 15" Macbook Pro with a 2.53 GHZ processor, 250GB HD 4GB RAM. $1800 retail. If you want to buy a refurb unit from Apple (I have bought several Apple refurbs and they look and function as new and come with the same 1 year warranty) it is only $1500.

2. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=Acer Has same amount of RAM, slightly larger HD, no firewire but otherwise close in specs. $1530. So difference is $270 ($30 more when compared to the refurb) but also no included software such as iLife.

3. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Toshiba this has very similar specs to the MacBook Pro but is lacking Firewire. Price is $1600 so $200 more for the Mac (or $100 less for the refurb Mac).

4. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...lett%20PackardThis one has a slightly larger HD but only VGA graphics output? Price is $1650. $150 less than the Mac or $150 more then the refurb.

You have to look at similar specs. I can pretty much be sure that any Windows laptop of decent quality with similar specs will be close in price. Not anywhere near half the cost of a Mac.

Doug I want you to buy the HP (and allow me a few min to cry like a BABY in the corner)

2, is a 2.66 processor, 4 is a 2.8 processer, the mack is a 2.5 big differance in price, about 200 or more to upgrade from a 2.5 to a 2.66 and 3 to 400 to go to the 2.8

#3 doesn't show any specs so I don't know what you are uasing for a comparason. also lets compare new to new.. you can probably find a refurbished version of any of these for 400 to 800 less.

as for firewire.. how many times have I needed it in the last 20 years I have had a computer.. hmmm oh none.. so realy firewire is a mute point. especialy with USB2 and serial ATA inputs. I have a HD camcorder and a new fancy DLSR and neither of them have firewire.. I couldn't even tell you what stilluses firewire except Apple.

bluetooth, I have to say big deal for that also.. realy what would you use it for? any bluetooth device I have that I would want to hook to my computer come with USB cords to do this. so I program them then unplug. now some one may want bluetooth, but for the average person...



Steve

Well, in the real world I don't think those small differences in processor speed would be noticeable. I was trying to find ones of mostly equal specs but it is difficult to find identical ones. I think the comparisons are pretty good.

I'm sure you can find refurbs of Windows machines too but do they come with full manufacturer backing and warranties as well?

Bluetooth is very useful for syncing to many devices and if you want to use a wireless mouse with it. Lot's of interesting gadgets are now incorporating bluetooth so i think it is a useful feature.

Firewire as well. File transfers to a firewire HD are way faster than USB2. I haven't done a comparison with eSATA but I suspect firewire is still faster. Mostly it is storage but I think plenty of cameras still have firewire as well.

Kind of had an idea what you guys were talking about but thought I better go check it out first. :lol:

Never purchased anything yet Brett. :smile:

yup they come with full warenties depending where you buy from.

as for speed differance in real world, I have a 2.53 (couldn't aford the 400.00 buck upgrade to the 2.66 last year :cry:) but in playing with the identical computers one with a 2.2 and the other with a 2.5 depending what you did there was actualy quite a differance.. actualy surprised me. I do a lot of photo work with 12Mp raw files so between the two there was a 1.5 second difference in opening one picture, and some times when I tag a bunch and open them there was a minuit or two differance. during the actual editing the previews were noticably faster also. now if you are working with 3mp pictures in jpg format I don't know if you would see much differance.

I also noticed that a few other bigger programs I have open faster and run a bit smother, but it is mostly the real intensive stuff.. if you are just surfing Canreef and checking e-mail no you wouldn't see anything.

Steve

found one for ya

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/...NAM17XARN_R_1E

:mrgreen:

Steve

If you really need bluetooth you can get a $1.98 usb/bluetooth dongle for your laptop from Dealextreme. I have one and it has worked flawlessly under XP, Vista and Windows 7 - however there are no Mac drivers.

I haven't really used the bluetooth more than once or twice and I haven't used firewire even though my external drive has firewire, USB 2.0 and eSATA II. I have hooked up the drive via firewire and eSATA is much faster. Theoretical speeds are 400 Mb/s and 800Mb/s for firewire 400 and 800 vs. 3Gb/s for SATA II

I don't believe there are any macs that come with eSATA.

That is the problem that I have with Apple in general. Apple gives you the experience that they believe you need - not necessarily what you need. Dell is the number one computer manufacturer at least partly because your machines are custom built to your specifications.

World wide market share for Mac OS vs. Windows vs. Linux which as of January 2010 including Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are 5.1%, 92.1% and 1.0% (don't ask me why it doesn't add up to 100 - I can give you the link)

If I had an unlimited budget I might buy a mac again. However, most people have a general idea of what they want to spend and don't buy on a comparison of specs. I would look at how much you want to spend and compare the windows and mac machines in that price range.

One machine that I have played with that is impressive is the HP tm2 touchsmart at 1099. It is a touchscreen notebook that is convertable into a tablet.
A co-worker of mine that is a mac person bought this at London Drugs.

I've never used anything with firewire either. Same goes for Card readers etc. Even on my DSLR I find it simpler just to plug the thing in with the USB cord they give you.

I think there's been some good discussion here Doug and you've gotten both sides of the story. Ron99 has about as much a chance at converting StirCrazy and I over to the Apple side as we have of turning him into a PC user.

At the end of the day, I think the things you should compare are
1) Processor
2) RAM
3) Hard Drive space.

Like Pinhead mentioned, pick a price point and call it your total budget and compare what you get.
Include Photoshop Elements and Include the bamboo pen and touch pad if it's something that interests you. Don't kid yourself about Iphoto being enough for more than adjusting white balance. The reason Adobe makes a Mac version of elements is because there is a demand for it.