Okay...trying not to panic but I am kinda worried......Just found 2 BIG dead turbo snails.

Tony they do look "spent"....severely deflated! Ya there is abit of a smell, not aweful though just different. So this has happened to you then? Did you have any "crash" after?

Actually I think I might be kinda panicking........:neutral::redface:

Going to do another 30G W/C tomorrow.

Yes, many times. Too many times to count. BTA's a few times but also with my old ritteri whom was 24" diameter (huge monster) and could spew for hours on end.

In actual fact very often within 2 weeks of an equinox as well. And guess what was last weekend? Weird eh.

Anyhow. There's no question it's a kick in the stomach for the tank as far as bioload, but the real kicker is O2 depletion so it's imperative to keep your skimmer on, even if it overflows for now. An air bubbler couldn't hurt, but shouldn't be necessary.

Your tank will pull through.

I'm not sure what's up with the turbos - it *could* be coincidence - snails do have a terrible habit of dropping dead just like that. :(

Thanks Tony! I knew you'd jump in on this one!
I will try not to panic! BREATHE>>>>>>>>>>:wink:

Weird on the Equinox thing. Neat....gonna have to watch for that.:neutral:

Oh, about the 40 nitrate thing. Dollars to donuts it's just interference (ie., the water is cloudy and thus the colour got darker, or something of this nature). It can't have jumped to 40 just like that, so either it's a false reading, or it already was up there or close to it in which case another day of it won't hurt. If it IS 40 though tomorrow, well .. you know. Not to sound like a broken record but there are these lentil like pellet things you might have heard about. ;)

Spawn events are a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it's cool to see because blah blah blah circle miracle of life wonderous times blah blah blah and all that, ... but at the same time IT'S IN YOUR TANK AND IT SMELLS! LOVELY! .... I totally feel for you tonight. But I promise after tomorrow it will be OK again!!!

Okay...broken record! I AM running the pellets!!! They have been in there for 3 days! I hope they are working!!!!!! Started thinking they were the cause because of the irony of having just added them, then this, but they better not be!:twised:

I will retest the nitrates tomorrow, hopefully a false reading.

Oh ok. :) Well there's no way they could really have populated enough bacteria yet in 3 days to affect anything (either positively or negatively), and since they are basically plastic otherwise, they're basically inert in and of themselves, so very likely that is only coincidence.

To me the fact that spring equinox was only 5 days ago is the more striking coincidence. I found that with my anemones very much so and yeah that could also be coincidence but the fact that it happens more often than not is probably telling us there is something to that after all.

Wish I was closer, I'd come over to help. Just make up as much SW as you can for tomorrow (or anytime after you notice them stop spewing, really) and kick off that waterchange. Do another one in another day or two if need be. Waterchanges can't really hurt and "the solution for pollution is dilution" so they definitely help in that way.

Another though. Sorta hesitant to suggest this since you had a bad experience with it, but when I had my mystery cloudiness back in September, I first thought it was a spawn. But then I noticed it wasn't clearing as quickly as other spawns I've had. It was suggested to me to use Coral Snow (the zeovit stuff) to help clear the water and I think it did help clear the water in the end. :neutral: But that was really a strange one for me and I'm not sure it was a spawn in the end since the water usually cleared up in a half day or so for those other spawns.

Good luck!

Thanks again Tony for your help. The tank has survived!!!:mrgreen:
Looks okay, everything appears normal?? A couple corals seem a little off but not too worrisome. Nems look a tad shrunken but overall normal. Smells a little odd. Nitrates are between 20-30 so down from last night. Doing another W/C as we speak and will mix another batch to do another tomorrow if need be.

Funny, I was JUST thinking about this and was about to ask how things were looking today! Glad to hear things survived the night of 'nem passion.

Yeah, that w/c tomorrow couldn't hurt, but after that it should more or less be back to 100% normal. :)

Glad to hear everything is doin good today:mrgreen::mrgreen: ....my urchins did this just last week and they seem to do it on a regular basis but its not as cloudy as your tank was...:smile:

Glad to hear all is well, I was waiting for the all clear post this morning and when nothing was posted I thought "oh **** its not good"

Thanks guys! Phew......I think it will be okay. Another W/C to dilute...and hope those NP pellets start working to bring the nitrates down!

Glad to hear everything worked out ok Carmen. Might be a good idea to hold up on the Nem Viagra dosing for awhile. :mrgreen:

No Viagra in this tank!:lol:

Another W/C today...nitrates still measuring 20-30. Tank looks okay but I did find another dead snail...:neutral:

So when do the pellets start working?

You should start noticing a downward trend after a week or so. It will probably take up to a month to get to the single digits or zero though.

How old are the snails? I find mine kinda go in waves like that too.

Picked up a bunch more sps last week from a friend (thanks Argentiner...you are too generous!). They seem to be doing well. My favorite a frag of blue Milli (ofcourse I can't get a good picture of it to show you cuz it shows up brown and blurry...)and my green slimer. I don't know the names of any of the sps but they look purty!! Gonna have to start to learn em I guess. A couple months ago I was given a colony of sps that was pretty browned out and to my surprise it is coming back a really bright purple! (Thanks Al!) Love it!!!(Anyone have a name for it?)
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0005.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0011.jpg

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0023.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0003.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0002.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0013.jpg

So I have tried to accept the microbubble issue with the tank but it's driving me crazy!! I am seriously thinking about buying a new return pump and changing the plumbing somehow to try to deal with the problem. I think the PS4 is my problem??? So what should I replace it with if I do go ahead??? (I don't have $1000 to spend!! I need something cost effective and quiet, external...hmmm) Also I have minimal room from the bulkhead to the pump in the curved stand so I have a 90 degree off the sump(not ideal, I know)but not sure there is anything I can do about it...Is it worth replacing the PS4 if I can't eliminate the 90? Pic shows the 90 off the sump. Pump is just right off that 90 and then the return comes straight up from the pump. My returns have those 90 bends too because we tried to work with the plumbing that came with the tank.
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...Coralin007.jpg

I just love this fish! He has great character...swimming in the tunze current, out to greet me first thing every morning, swims right into my hand and I just love his cute little face! I just can't help but snap pics of him everytime I am taking tank pictures!
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0016.jpg
http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r...chTank0019.jpg

Have you ever thought of using spaflex instead of the 90s?

Hi Carmen,

Replacing the pump probably isn't the answer to the microbubbles. I have forgotten what your sump setup is specifically but looking at that last picture there of it, I'm guessing it's something like a 20g and choosing it was probably based on that it can fit in your stand and so on.

The problem is a 20g is a short sump, and short pumps often don't have enough water contact time to shed bubbles by the time it hits the return pump, and thus you end up with microbubbles.

You might see the occasional sump these days that are split down the middle in the long dimension so that water goes down and back, effectively doubling the linear length of the sump .. although the flip side to these designs is that at half the width, water travels twice as fast.

(I'm not suggestion you revamp your sump like this, just sharing it for informational reasons.)

Anyhow. The problem is water speed through the sump.

As an aside this also means replacing the 90's may have a paradoxical effect as this will speed up the sump return and thus increase the speed through the sump.

But here a few things you can try that don't involve a major re-architecture of the sump:

1) A 100micron filter sock. I have to use these myself because of the cube tank arrangement my sump size is limited and without the sock I get *terrible* microbubbles in the main display.

They don't slow the water speed down any, but what they do do (hee hee .. I just said "do do") is contain the splash effect at the point of sump entry so that less bubbles travel onward in your sump. Plus they help polish your water.

2) Also if you have any baffles that create a level drop, these create a weir effect and this can reintroduce bubbles into the water. So raising the water level in downstream section so that the level drop isn't as pronounced can help.

3) Next, how far is the output of your skimmer from the sump return intake? The bubbles could be coming from your skimmer. What I would do (this is another thing I have to do in my sump) is pipe the skimmer output back to the beginning of the sump. This has dual benefits: 1) bubbles have time to be shed, and 2) it creates a slight recirculation effect with the skimmer (ie., the skimmer reskims some of the water it just skimmed) and thus the water exiting the sump back into the main display is theoretically a tiny bit cleaner.

4) Also, there may be a way to repipe the drain pipework from the tank back to the sump so that water slides in an angle rather than crashing straight down into the sump. The goal is to reduce the splashing effect as much as possible of the water entering the sump.

5) If it really gets unbearable, you could try some kind of Herbie style overflow. Herbie systems are the best for no-microbubbles, any tank I do myself from now on will have Herbie overflows. It is possible to get a Herbie overflow in a tank with a single hole drilled, we just need to get creative on the piping. Sphelps had some diagrams posted up a few months ago if you wanted to go looking at details but if this is something you want to consider at some point, maybe we can talk offline a bit and I'll do what I can to help you out on that one.

Good luck!

carmen your tank looks awesome, i would sure love a moment to sit and watch your tank sometime!

Check this for me Carmen;
Using a flash light look in the water for bubbles after your last baffle and before your pump. check to see if you are getting any bubbles cascading from your last baffle. Another thing is fill up your return area in your sump level with the last baffle turn off your pump for a few a seconds and plug it back in( try to get rid of any bubbles in your lines) and check your tank after a few hours.
Kevin

If I remember right (I did help carry it to her car) its a 40x12x18 or something.. so definitely bigger than a 20G.

An easy fix would be to downgrade your return pump to something less powerful. Slowing the rate at which the water flows through the sump should also help in stopping/reducing any bubbles that may be rolling over your last baffle. I think I only had 5-6x turnover on my 105 with a baffle-less sump w/ Skimmer and never saw a single bubble and my return was 100% hard plumbing. On my 75 I was running 16x turnover with a baffle system and always had some amount of micro-bubbles, just not bad enough to bother me. That is just my opinion though. I am Pro-low-sump-flow. Others disagree and are Pro-High-Flow claiming it provides more filtation and oxygenation, but a skimmer can only process so much water. :wink:

Your tank is looking fantastic right now though Carmen. Great photo of the fish. :biggrin:

I haven't...perhaps something I should try before looking at a new pump/plumbing...???

Thank you!! Even I wish I had more time to just sit and watch! Not enough time to just enjoy!

I do have some bubbles after the baffles...not enough that I think it would cause this much in the display???But...maybe... it is the problem...??? I have tried shutting down the pump, filling and restarting with no success...not in the lines I don't think. Thanks Kev.

Okay Tony.......
to answer and comment on your ideas/suggestions....

First the sump is 40"X12.5" and filled average 13" (So I don't think it's overly small???)
Three sections: First is skimmer...baffled with three baffles. Middle is return and end is fuge. I have flow from the display entering through spaflex into each end section (ie one in the skimmer section and one entering the fuge.

The reason I think it's the pump is that others with the pS4 report identical issues????

I have no bubbles from the skimmer although I do wonder if the bubbles may be coming from the drop from the fuge. There are bubbles there...although not nearly what I would think would cause what I see entering the display??? It seems fairly "calm" by the time it hits the return bulkhead?

So the filter socks to absorb the bubbles...I could try(I hate filter socks....) but I suppose a cheap fix. I do have a large "bubble effect" from the spaflex but not a splash effect since they are under water.

I did have abit of a drop from the fuge so I have raised that a little more to see if that helps.

Not sure there are too many options on repiping the returns? I am limited I think because of the design of the tank/stand, etc???

Not convinced it's worth looking into a herbie...I am happy with my overflows, they make NO sound. I understand what you said about slowing the flow...don't exactly understand why I would change to a herbie??? And how that would slow the flow???

So something that I don't understand...if slowing things down is the answer...why don't I get any decrease in microobubbles when I close the return valves down?

Pretty good memory there Josh!

My question as I put to Tony is...then shouldn't the bubbles improve if I turn down the return valves? If I used a less powerful pump, wouldn't that do the same?

Thanks on the compliment! Startin to fill up slowly but surely...
A very easy fish to photograph!! He poses as though he loves it!

Tank looks great Carmen. Really starting to fill out. Love that tile fish.

Those are small in size but high RPM pumps. Even smaller bubbles getting in to that high speed propeller would put to shame some skimmer pumps. Did you try raising the water level in the return area of your sump to that of your last baffle? If not give that a shot and monitor. Josh brings up a good point but at around 700+ GPH after head loss that is not excessive. You can try turning down your ball valve on the output of the pump to discern this.
Kevin

Bearing in mind that I'm only running through suggestions that I can think of without being able to see things. (Shoot, Josh helped carry the actual sump to the car, I can't compete with that! What do you need me for.) Small sump only came to mind as one possible cause but that doesn't mean it's the cause of your situation .. it's only as I say, something that comes to mind as a usual culprit. One makes a list of possibles, then you examine to see which ones are plausible, which ones are implausible, and which ones are impossible .. and you work out from there.

Ok so probably not sump size, which is good. So, we move onto other possibilities.

A Herbie doesn't slow the flow. A Herbie sidesteps the issue of microbubbles from your overflow because the input and output are completely submerged and thus cannot introduce air into the sump. If you're convinced the bubbles don't come from the overflow, then, again, it's just something you scratch off the list and move onto the others.

Yes. And for what it's worth, dialing back a pump in this matter actually decreases your electrical usage. Pump draw is based more on the speed of the impeller rather than how high the water is being lifted. Throttling back on a pump (always on output side, never on the input side - pumps are good at pushing, but they suck at sucking) is the same as higher head pressure.

But, if you've already dialed back the pump and it made no difference then maybe it is not a sump speed issue after all. The only thing I can think that hasn't been suggested so far is that there is could be a microhole somewhere acting as a venturi and sucking in air. It would realistically be on the inlet side because on the outlet side you'd either see wetness or a lot of saltcreep.

My guess based on everything you've said is that the problem is possibly in your last baffle. If you have a level drop, it is just like a weir and you can get air bubbles. The simple test to confirm this would be to temporarily put more water in your sump so that there is no level drop. If the bubbles go away, there you go; if they don't, well, again if nothing else at least you can eliminate the possibility and know to look somewhere else.

Whatever the cause, hope you find it and be able to fix it.

cheers

Okay, I raised the level of the water even more in the sump and dialed the pump back even more. Bubbles are still pretty bad. Going to try the filter sock thing.

Now here's the other dilemma.........my nitrates are going UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Up near 50ish+???? I will recheck them at RC tomorrow but WTF??? Shouldn't they be working their way down using the Biopellets?
I have tried to reduce my feedings...(I suck at this)...but I don't think I am completely excessive??? Frozen, once daily, rinsed.

Thanks Scott!:wink:

Your feeding does not sound excessive to me. I'm sorry that the nitrates aren't going down.

Are you using RO/DI or tap? I'm actually having some pretty bad nitrate (and for the first time ever) phosphate buildups. I use RO/DI for my SW but I wonder if the membrane is going and maybe it's a spring runoff issue? My FW tank is just raw tapwater and it's off the charts all of a sudden, which you'd think wouldn't be possible with the amount of plants in there (well, now algae :( ). So I was thinking I might test my source water tomorrow and see if that could be an explanation.

We're on different reservoirs but it stands to reason if spring runoff is starting that both the Elbow and Bow river water systems could be having issues?

Wonder if anyone else is noticing more NO3 and/or PO4 all of a sudden lately?

Well tank stuff had been put on the back burner for the last week or so. My daughter was very ill and in and out of the Emergency all last week for a severe stomach flu/infection. She was severely dehydrated and required IV and such, however we all survived! What a week! Now I am running around in a panic trying to pack for Mexico tomorrow!

So...the tank issues continue. Nitrates still high..., still bubbly...(But improved since I added a filter sock and raised the sump water level even more), and suddenly a new concern.......yesterday while trying to hook up my new RO/DI unit, the power dies to the tank!!!!!! Ah, OMG! WTF??? No tripped breaker??? Finally found a tripped GFI upstairs that runs in the same circiut???????? So we have no clue why it suddenly tripped or that it was even on the same circuit! (No one was even in the house using power when it tripped!) So.......no time to get an electrician in before we leave but we are concerned that I have overloaded the circuit or something so I have extension cords running all across my basement to disburse the electricity to the tank to different circuits?????????? Electrician will be in to check it out while we are away. (These things always happen right before holidays right!:neutral:)

Anyway........I shall be sunnin on a beach tomorrow! (and chasin two kids:surprise::wink:)
The tank saga will continue when I return..............

Yikes. :neutral: What a week. Hope your vacation is awesome. Things will be fine. It is always most hectic just before you go.

How are you measuring your nitrates? Is it possible you're getting bad readings? Have you tried another test kit (borrow one from somewhere/someone maybe?)

ya she has double checked a couple times with the test kit at work.....still high......lentils may not have been tumbling as much as they needed to be......sorry for jumping in Girly

your guy has a couple really good numbers to phone if anything happens ( Im sure all will be cool.....cept maybe in Mehico:wink:)

Have Fun Girly!:biggrin:

Thanks! He's right Tony...double checked nitrates and unfortunately the test isn't faulty!

I am confident the tank is in excellent hands since I have Doug and Kevin as emergency numbers should anything happen! I know they would do anything for me...great guys to have looking out for me/my tank while I am away! Thanks Guys and I hope you don't get any phone calls this week........:wink:. Will be thinkin bout ya and will have a couple drinks just for you as I lay on the beach!:mrgreen::wink:

Bummer, I was hoping the pellets would have made a dent by now. Is it possible the nitrates are bound in the rock and substrate? In which case it will take longer .. but they'll get pulled down sooner or later. How much pellets are you running at the moment? Maybe try upping them a little.

They'll come down sooner or later!

Have a good trip!

those were my thoughts too Tony.....something bound up in the rock she got with the tank when she bought it....

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:wink: Back from a great trip in Mexico! Feeling somewhat relaxed (but not likin the snow here:neutral:)! Trip was fantastic! Kids loved every second, great weather, lots of sun and even a little snorkellin!:mrgreen:

Came back to a tank in good order. One loss...my fairy wrasse. Not sure what happened. She showed up one day lookin rough then never popped out again. She was looking fairly pale when I did a WC right before I left so I wasn't too surprised.
AND good news!!! My nitrates are coming down........tested last night at 20! Whohooooo!:biggrin:

And to reply Tony...I think the Nitrates must be leaching from the rocks...that's the only thing that really makes sense (as Doug suggested). So sooner or later I suppose it will settle down.

Still have to figure out the electrical on the tank/house. Has to wait til next week so for now I have extension cords running everywhere.

welcome back and glad you enjoyed your trip......sucks to hears bout your wrasse though......twas a beautiful fish:sad:......also good that the pellets seem to be kickin in......